Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

Even if the terms were not on the back they'll argue that they were sent as a package with the application form as referred to. Then the single document argument comes into play.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

I agree with you AC, but to be honest how many of us took the time to read through the terms and conditions, if we did then I am sure many of us would not be in the position we have found ourselves in today.

Barristers themselves were the worst at reading terms and conditions; so I am given to understand.
The point of supplying clear concise financial & related particulars, would be to provide information in order that, the applicant could make an informed decision.

Without a doubt, many applicants in the early days had no idea about what they were signing up for or, the consequences of same...key facts/key financial information had not then been introduced.

We know full well that some banks have provided terms that were NOT on the back of application forms or, slips. Even though, they claim that same were related to the credit agrement in question, when clearly this was NOT the case.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

Even if the terms were not on the back they'll argue that they were sent as a package with the application form as referred to. Then the single document argument comes into play.

The old "packs" argument.

Depends on the Bank/Credit Card Supplier and;
the date of application.

Many just picked up an application form in a shop/supermarket or, tore one out of a magazine: No Packs.

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

The old "packs" argument.

Depends on the Bank/Credit Card Supplier and;
the date of application.

Many just picked up an application form in a shop/supermarket or, tore one out of a magazine: No Packs.

In some cases the packs (containing the unsigned agreement and t&cs) were supplied after completing and posting off the application form.

[shell]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

But then again, even if you think you understand, you don't really as shown by this letter received from First Plus. They also informed me in another letter that my agreement says we "May" increase or decrease your interest rate, blah, blah blah, it doesn't say we will. What it means is we may or may not.

Because of that clause, they increase, but very rarely decrease and when they do decrease it's not long before it goes up again and usually higher than it was before.

[shell]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

Clause 8 states: "The interest on your account will not in any twelve month period, vary by more than twice the variation in the Finance House Base Rate (FHBR) published by the Finance and Leasing Association during the same period".


Just to add this is the clause in my loan I am talking about.

[jumper999]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

Hi shell, at least you know what your interest rate is linked to

[shell]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

Hi shell, at least you know what your interest rate is linked to

No I don't, because if you read the letter they sent, they now say that could be one of the factors it's linked to, but not necessarily. Also when the FHBR goes down (as it has done in the last couple of years) your loan interest rate doesn't go down.

So how are you supposed to understand your T&C's? This is why I say, you may think you understand your T&C's but do you really? I thought mine were pretty clear, but obviously not.

[jumper999]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

There is a big super complaint going on at present against First Plus I believe.

The OFT has also laid down guidelines for lenders and how they write clearly on the agreement on how the interest rate is linked to and how it will be calculated.

[Amethyst]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

Do you write copy for the Plain English Campaign? :santa_smiley:

:snowbal:

[basa48]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

In some cases the packs (containing the unsigned agreement and t&cs) were supplied after completing and posting off the application form.

This interestingly is exactly the scenario Waksman considered as the "Assumed facts" in Carey [177] when he determined what was acceptable as an executed agreement under s61.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

No I don't, because if you read the letter they sent, they now say that could be one of the factors it's linked to, but not necessarily. Also when the FHBR goes down (as it has done in the last couple of years) your loan interest rate doesn't go down.

So how are you supposed to understand your T&C's? This is why I say, you may think you understand your T&C's but do you really? I thought mine were pretty clear, but obviously not.

Agree Shell, as I read your attached letter: smoke and mirrors...

[Angry Cat]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

The, Plain Crystal Clear English Campaign!

We may;
We might;
We should;
We shouldn't ...

"We May": Expressing possibility; always airy fairy wiffle waffle wordings.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/specia...education.html

[jumper999]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

But then again, even if you think you understand, you don't really as shown by this letter received from First Plus. They also informed me in another letter that my agreement says we "May" increase or decrease your interest rate, blah, blah blah, it doesn't say we will. What it means is we may or may not.

Because of that clause, they increase, but very rarely decrease and when they do decrease it's not long before it goes up again and usually higher than it was before.

Hi shell,

Have you read the FLA Lending Code which regulates First Plus?

The Lending Code - Finance Leasing Association


Have you requested a statement of account? If you have then you should see if interest has increased or decreased each month. If interest has increased were you notifies in advance by First Plus that this would happen, either by letter or email or any other way. The FLA Lending Code states;

2F.2

Changes to the interest rate may affect your monthly payments. We will tell you
about any changes to the interest rate by letter, e-mail or other personal notices at least seven days before they take effect. Where relevant, we will also put obvious notices in our branches and may place notices in national newspapers.

If the change is to your advantage, we may change your interest rate sooner.
To help you compare rates more easily, our notices will clearly show the old
and new interest rates that apply to your agreement.

This section (2F.2) only applies if the rate we charge is changing. It will not
always be possible to tell you about changes before they take effect if your
agreement is linked to a published rate (for example, a bank base rate or the
finance house base rate) and it is only that published rate that is changing. In
that situation we will tell you as soon as possible by letter, e-mail, other personal notices, or by showing the impact on your monthly account statement.

Hope this is of some help.