Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

[pt2537]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

The coa in ausie land held that an application for credit witch refered to terms overleaf was binding

but isnt that exactly what the authorities i posted and the submissions which were made, say?

However,

There are credit agreements which simply say

" i agree to be bound by the terms and conditions"

Is that sufficient notice for the terms to be incorperated? i think not

it certainly would not allow you to rely on an exclusion clause in a contract if that were the only reference and that clause was within a set of terms and conditions away from the part you sign

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

so the face of the document must refer to overleaf for the terms to be binding. Makes sense.

[pt2537]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

so the face of the document must refer to overleaf for the terms to be binding. Makes sense.

if you look at Halsburys or chitty, it does make a lot of sense

remember that the underlying principles of contract law and reinforced by the CCA not replaced.

[jumper999]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

but isnt that exactly what the authorities i posted and the submissions which were made, say?

However,

There are credit agreements which simply say

" i agree to be bound by the terms and conditions"

Is that sufficient notice for the terms to be incorperated? i think not

it certainly would not allow you to rely on an exclusion clause in a contract if that were the only reference and that clause was within a set of terms and conditions away from the part you sign

Hi PT,

There are also some agreements that say;

"SIGN IT ONLY IF YOU WANT TO BE LEGALLY BOUND BY IT TERMS"

They give you a choice so to say but in reality it is not a choice but a condition, because if you do not sign and agree to be bound by it's terms, they will not issue you a credit card or account.

I believe many agreements have this clause in them too.

[pt2537]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

"SIGN IT ONLY IF YOU WANT TO BE LEGALLY BOUND BY IT TERMS"

and what terms are they? thats the whole point

[jumper999]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

Well I guess the terms that they refer to would be in their booklet or pamphlet they give you with your agreement. I cannot say that I did not receive one as I am not 100% sure, and if I did I cannot find it.

My lender sent the FOS a copy of the t's & c's that they say accompanied my agreement, but these do not give any reference to which year, time or date of my agreement.

No reference is given in these t's & c's to link them to my agreement.

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

and what terms are they? thats the whole point

And where are they?

[jumper999]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

Here are my terms and conditions to my agreement, but no reference or link is given referring them to my agreement

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50019701@N06/5234199516/

[shell]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

and what terms are they? thats the whole point

And is my interpretation of the T&C's the same as the banks? Or is it written in such a way that the bank can take it to mean whatever they want?

[middenmess]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

Here are my terms and conditions to my agreement, but no reference or link is given referring them to my agreement

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50019701@N06/5234199516/

Is that the only page of the 'agreement' that they sent you?

[jumper999]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

Hi mm, they did not send me any copy of the t's & c's. This is the copy they sent to the FOS who they sent to me, so yes this is I guess thee only copy I have.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

"Sign it if you agree to be legally bound by its terms"

Where were the purported terms that "the Creditor" claims to be associated with the credit agreement in question?

Did the front on the application form or, slip refer to the terms that are alleged to have been on the reverse of same?

Did the front of the application form or slip, direct the applicant to the reverse, in order that the applicant could read these terms?

Was everything made clear (crystal clear) to the applicant?

In many cases, NO and;
in many cases the terms were not on the reverse of the application forms or slips!
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Hi mm, they did not send me any copy of the t's & c's. This is the copy they sent to the FOS who they sent to me, so yes this is I guess thee only copy I have.

So, how could you possibly know that the Terms are associated with the credit agreement?;
the terms that would have applied at the point of inception

[jumper999]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

I agree with you AC, but to be honest how many of us took the time to read through the terms and conditions, if we did then I am sure many of us would not be in the position we have found ourselves in today.

[middenmess]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

Hi mm, they did not send me any copy of the t's & c's. This is the copy they sent to the FOS who they sent to me, so yes this is I guess thee only copy I have.

IMO [In common with paperwork sent to many others] not only are they saying that those are 'The Credit Card Agreement Terms' they also state that it is a Copy of your Agreement.

Not a partial copy of your agreement but a definitive full on and 'complete agreement'...


If that's a legal & proper job 'agreement' then I'll believe in Father Christmas!

[jumper999]

Re: Terms printed on the reverse of the Agreement

"Sign it if you agree to be legally bound by its terms"

Where were the purported terms that "the Creditor" claims to be associated with the credit agreement in question?

Did the front on the application form or, slip refer to the terms that are alleged to have been on the reverse of same?

Did the front of the application form or slip, direct the applicant to the reverse, in order that the applicant could read these terms?

Was everything made clear (crystal clear) to the applicant?

In many cases, NO and;
in many cases the terms were not on the reverse of the application forms or slips!
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------



So, how could you possibly know that the Terms are associated with the credit agreement?;
the terms that would have applied at the point of inception

I would not know at all AC, but to argue on just this point alone would be such an uphill climb.

I believe that the Amex v Brandon appeal is to be heard tomorrow. All eyes waiting on the outcome of that.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

IMO [In common with paperwork sent to many others] not only are they saying that those are 'The Credit Card Agreement Terms' they also state that it is a Copy of your Agreement.

Not a partial copy of your agreement but a definitive full on and 'complete agreement'...


If that's a legal & proper job 'agreement' then I'll believe in Father Christmas!

Thanks mm, I already have many points against HSBC, and this could just be another nail in the coffin I suppose.