Card Carriers

[Lord_Alcohol]

Is an unsigned card carrier a properly executed agreement?

I opened a BoS credit card account in 1996, and the bank has sent me a copy of the last card carrier I received (in 2007), stating that it is a copy of the executed agreement. The bank tended to send these carriers with new cards. Each one is a CCA regulated ag but with no place to sign or signature showing.

I know this came up in Rankine but believe that this refers to the carrier sent with the new card immediately after opening the account. In my case, the carrier in question was sent 11 years after the account was opened.

Is the bank correct in claiming that the 2007 carrier is the properly executed agreement?

TIA
LA

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Carriers

IMO, the card carrier in question would just be terms as varied. They would need to provide a copy of the original executed agreement, the original terms of same and, terms as varied.

[Amethyst]

Re: Card Carriers

Are they saying that activation of the card is acceptance/execution of the new agreement ? (basically)

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Carriers

Is an unsigned card carrier a properly executed agreement?

I opened a BoS credit card account in 1996, and the bank has sent me a copy of the last card carrier I received (in 2007), stating that it is a copy of the executed agreement. The bank tended to send these carriers with new cards. Each one is a CCA regulated ag but with no place to sign or signature showing.

I know this came up in Rankine but believe that this refers to the carrier sent with the new card immediately after opening the account. In my case, the carrier in question was sent 11 years after the account was opened.

Is the bank correct in claiming that the 2007 carrier is the properly executed agreement?

TIA
LA

Short answer, No!

Please see reg 7 of the Cancellation Notices and Copies of Document Regulations 1983

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Card Carriers

Amethyst - no, these are actually replacement cards, issued when the current one expires. I've always assumed the card carriers are just to notify me of new T&Cs, but the OC now says that the last card carrier received becomes the executed agreement.

I am puzzled by this, as these card carriers are not signed and are usually issued while the old card is still within its lifetime (ie, it hasn't quite expired).

Angry_Cat - many thanks that's a big help. I've looked at the Regs. Would you say that the OC is wrong to state that the last card carrier is the executed agreement and that he should have sent notices of variation when he changed the T&Cs?

Fantastic if that's the case. I'll have him over a barrel as he has insisted that the last carrier is the exec. ag.

Actually, can I use this fact to help my case at all? Unfair trading practice maybe?

Many thanks!

LA

[Amethyst]

Re: Card Carriers

The third copy would be an executed copy of the agreement, as by that stage it would have been signed by you and amex. We do not send out a version that shows both of the signatures, but nevertheless send an executed copy, which is the card acrrier copy sent with your american express card.

This executed copy excludes the signatures, but noetheless complies with the "true copies" requirement of the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983. These regulations allow Amex to omit and signature and/or signature box. On the basis that you received and have been using the card, we can only assume that you have been provided with the card carrier and therefore the executed copy of the agreement.

From a Newmans letter which shows their reasoning behind the card carrier being the executed agreement - something to do with the Rankines judgment - not sure what happened with it but the thread may assist CCA requests- Meaning of Executed Agreement. - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Carriers

The Consumer Credit Cancellation Notices & Copies of Documents Regulations 1983 states:

7(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either -

a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied;

or

b) an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act.

Reg 7 refers to a copy of the EXECUTED AGREEMENT and that sub sections a) or b) are in addition to this and not any alternative to sending the "ACTUAL EXECUTED AGREEMENT".

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Carriers

For the avoidance of doubt, I would confirm that credit card mailers, after the first credit card token, do perform the function of varying the terms of an agreement;
if the lender fails to vary said terms, they would be in default of section 85.

However, as per reg 7 of the cancellation notices and copy doc regs 1983, if the lender wishes to comply with s78, they must provide a copy of the executed agreement, inception terms and all terms as varied.

Hopefully, the above makes matters clear.

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Card Carriers

Thanks guys for your help with this.

If the original executed agreement from 1996 is just an application form, albeit with reference to the 1974 Act but not containing all the prescribed terms, but the OC has claimed that the last mailer from 2007 is the executed agreement, would he be in breach of both the Act (s78) and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Practices Regs by falsely representing a credit agreement?

I know you've spelled this out already Angry_Cat but I need to be crystal clear on this.

TIA
LA

[Angry Cat]

Re: Card Carriers

Yes, they are in breach of section 78 and are misleading you; a consumer.

We await the result of the following closed consultation, the result of which will not be published until 2011
http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/consul...nce-s77-78-79/