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Beginners Guide to Total Charge for Credit for unenforceable agreements

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  • Beginners Guide to Total Charge for Credit for unenforceable agreements

    Total Charge for Credit

    I think many of who have been working with the above for a while forget how difficult it was to get our heads around this in the beginning so what I have attempted to do here is an introduction to the subject.

    I have found that incorrect TCCs can be responsible for a large percentage of agreement being incorrectly executed and, in many cases the cause of unenforceability, especially in older credit agreements.

    When you repay a loan whether it be credit card, fixed sum, hire purchase or whatever you agree to pay it back in instalments over a period of time.

    If you break down your repayments you will see that they fall int the following catagories
    1) The amount you borrowed
    2) Any charges that you had to pay in order to get the loan.

    The sum of the above form the TAP (Total Amount Payable)

    The last category consists of the Total Charge for credit.



    TOTAL CHARGE for CREDIT is the sum of of any monies that you contractually agreed to pay in order to procure the loan. It Includes;
    • The interest charged on the loan
    • Any setting up fees charged by the creditor
    • Any insurance that was conditional on you getting the loan (if you didn’t buy they wouldn’t give you the loan)
    • The final purchase element on a hire purchase agreement
    • Any brokerage charges
    • Any attached agreements necessary to the purchase of the loan
    (An exhaustive list of charges that should be included in the TCC are contained in the TCC regulations 1980)

    The consumer Credit Act 1974 section 9(4) says that,” (4). For the purposes of this Act, an item entering into the total charge for credit shall not be treated as credit even though time is allowed for its payment.”

    So we see that if one of these items appeared as part of the Total Credit it would contravene the Act.

    Unenforceability

    The consequendies of this are severe, The Total Credit as you know is a prescribed term, and if missing or incorrect would render all agreements made before the 6th of April 2007 unenforceable.

    If even one of the items listed above where to end up contained within amount loaned ( Total Credit) then that figure would be incorrect by that amount, and render the agreement unenforceable.


    APR

    Lastly I better mention the TCC in relation to the APR quoted on the agreement.
    The perceived cost the loan can be calculated by using;
    The amount you loaned,
    The time taken to repay it and
    The amount of interest you pay
    This would give you the interest quoted in the agreement, however this would not include the total cost of the loan as it would leave out all the other charges that you have had to pay in order to get it.
    The APR calculates its value by using the TCC instead of just the interest thus including all the charges and giving a truer picture of what the loan actually costs you

    As you can imagine there are many other aspect to the TCC that I have not mentioned here but there are extremely good OFT pamphlets on the subject on there website and the full low-down is contained within the TCC regs 1980. I have not seen these available on line and had to buy mine maybe someone reading this knows a better source.

    Best regards
    Peter
    Last edited by peterbard; 16th August 2010, 14:03:PM.

  • #2
    Re: Beginners Guide to Totall Charge for Credit

    You will be able to get them on www.opsi.gov.uk.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Beginners Guide to Totall Charge for Credit

      Originally posted by peterbard View Post
      Total Charge for Credit

      I think many of who have been working with the above for a while forget how difficult it was to get our heads around this in the beginning so what I have attempted to do here is an introduction to the subject.

      I have found that incorrect TCCs can be responsible for a large percentage of agreement being incorrectly executed and, in many cases the cause of unenforceability, especially in older credit agreements.

      When you repay a loan whether it be credit card, fixed sum, hire purchase or whatever you agree to pay it back in instalments over a period of time.

      If you break down your repayments you will see that they fall int the following catagories
      1) The amount you borrowed
      2) Any charges that you had to pay in order to get the loan.

      The sum of the above form the TAP (Total Amount Payable)

      The last category consists of the Total Charge for credit.





      TOTAL CHARGE for CREDIT is the sum of of any monies that you contractually agreed to pay in order to procure the loan. It Includes;
      • The interest charged on the loan
      • Any setting up fees charged by the creditor
      • Any insurance that was conditional on you getting the loan (if you didn’t buy they wouldn’t give you the loan)
      • The final purchase element on a hire purchase agreement
      • Any brokerage charges
      • Any attached agreements necessary to the purchase of the loan
      (An exhaustive list of charges that should be included in the TCC are contained in the TCC regulations 1980)

      The consumer Credit Act 1974 section 9(4) says that,” (4). For the purposes of this Act, an item entering into the total charge for credit shall not be treated as credit even though time is allowed for its payment.”

      So we see that if one of these items appeared as part of the Total Credit it would contravene the Act.

      Unenforceability

      The consequendies of this are severe, The Total Credit as you know is a prescribed term, and if missing or incorrect would render all agreements made before the 6th of April 2007 unenforceable.

      If even one of the items listed above where to end up contained within amount loaned ( Total Credit) then that figure would be incorrect by that amount, and render the agreement unenforceable.


      APR

      Lastly I better mention the TCC in relation to the APR quoted on the agreement.
      The perceived cost the loan can be calculated by using;
      The amount you loaned,
      The time taken to repay it and
      The amount of interest you pay
      This would give you the interest quoted in the agreement, however this would not include the total cost of the loan as it would leave out all the other charges that you have had to pay in order to get it.
      The APR calculates its value by using the TCC instead of just the interest thus including all the charges and giving a truer picture of what the loan actually costs you

      As you can imagine there are many other aspect to the TCC that I have not mentioned here but there are extremely good OFT pamphlets on the subject on there website and the full low-down is contained within the TCC regs 1980. I have not seen these available on line and had to buy mine maybe someone reading this knows a better source.

      Best regards
      Peter
      Hi Peter, just getting my head around your notes so bear with me if I question the bleedin obvious.

      Total Amount Payable (TAP) = Amount Borrowed or Amount of Credit (what you call Total Credit or TC) + Total Charge for Credit (TCC)

      TAP = TC + TCC

      TCC is charges as per your list under TCC

      Then you say if any of these charges appear 'as part of the Total Credit (TC) it would contravene the Act.' This 'Total Credit' is the amount borrowed excluding TCC? So any charges must be in TCC and not the first half of my equation, i.e. what I've called Amount Borrowed or Amount of Credit. Just want to get my mind round all the terms... I'm confused having TC and TCC.

      TIA

      ToP

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Beginners Guide to Totall Charge for Credit

        Originally posted by TiredofPaying View Post
        Hi Peter, just getting my head around your notes so bear with me if I question the bleedin obvious.

        Total Amount Payable (TAP) = Amount Borrowed or Amount of Credit (what you call Total Credit or TC) + Total Charge for Credit (TCC)

        TAP = TC + TCC

        TCC is charges as per your list under TCC

        Then you say if any of these charges appear 'as part of the Total Credit (TC) it would contravene the Act.' This 'Total Credit' is the amount borrowed excluding TCC? So any charges must be in TCC and not the first half of my equation, i.e. what I've called Amount Borrowed or Amount of Credit. Just want to get my mind round all the terms... I'm confused having TC and TCC.


        ToP
        HI

        Yes

        THe amount you borrow is the Total Credit.
        Any charges that you pay like interst or fees are all lumped together and form the total charge for credit

        If you add the two together then you get the total amount payable.

        If you think about it it is the ratio between the two that gives you the true interest rate for the loan.

        If a part of the TCC was moved onto the TC then the when you calculated the interest TCC/TC it would look like you are getting a better deal then you are which is why the act prohibits it.

        Peter
        If one fee was moved from the total chargee for credit into the total credit the calculated interst would be incorrect
        ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
        Originally posted by orc View Post
        You will be able to get them on www.opsi.gov.uk.
        Hi

        Are you sure

        Could be right not looked for a while but all you used to be able to get was the OFT 144 Guide.

        Peter
        Last edited by peterbard; 16th August 2010, 19:07:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Beginners Guide to Totall Charge for Credit

          Originally posted by orc View Post
          You will be able to get them on www.opsi.gov.uk.
          Hi

          No sorry just checked still cant see it .

          It always was a bit of a bugger all the subssequent SI are on there biut not the orriginal 1980s.

          Like i say though the OFT 144 is good to have it gives a lot of good info just type oft credit charges oft 144 into your browser or something like that you wont have any problems finding it as for the regs your library or amazon i am affraid.
          Peter

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Beginners Guide to Totall Charge for Credit

            Originally posted by peterbard View Post
            HI

            Yes

            THe amount you borrow is the Total Credit.
            Any charges that you pay like interst or fees are all lumped together and form the total charge for credit

            If you add the two together then you get the total amount payable.

            If you think about it it is the ratio between the two that gives you the true interest rate for the loan.

            If a part of the TCC was moved onto the TC then the when you calculated the interest TCC/TC it would look like you are getting a better deal then you are which is why the act prohibits it.

            Peter
            If one fee was moved from the total chargee for credit into the total credit the calculated interst would be incorrect

            Peter
            Thanks for that Peter. Would it be fair to say that any statement which I received would start off with Total Credit (TC) as an opening balance with Total Charges for Credit (TCC) being added throughout the life of the agreement, the whole sum (TAP) being reduced by my instalments? If the opening balance is not TC then some costs may have migrated from TCC or just appeared as if by magic?

            ToP
            Last edited by TiredofPaying; 16th August 2010, 19:23:PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Beginners Guide to Totall Charge for Credit

              Originally posted by TiredofPaying View Post
              Thanks for that Peter. Would it be fair to say that any statement which I received would start off with Total Credit (TC) as an opening balance with Total Charges for Credit (TCC) being added throughout the life of the agreement, the whole sum (TAP) being reduced by my instalemnts? If the opening balance is not TC then some costs may have migrated from TCC or just appeared as if by magic?

              ToP
              HI
              Yes your opening ballance will be the total credit or totall you borrowed.

              If you add up all your payments over the life of the loan and subtract this number you wil get your totall charge for credi.

              Any fees or charges that where charged to you as a condition of getting the loan in other wordw if you didnt pay them they would not have given you the money should not be included in the total credit figure.

              The exceptions to this are things like , delivery charges ormaintenance if it sis for a vericle.



              Peter
              Last edited by peterbard; 16th August 2010, 19:32:PM. Reason: mm

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Beginners Guide to Totall Charge for Credit

                And fees that were not explained and not required as a condition of getting the loan but which had been added to the Total Credit are suspect? If so, would this make the agreement unenforceable?

                BTW I couldn't find the SI on the OPSI website. Thought I was making a complete hash of it.

                ToP

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Beginners Guide to Totall Charge for Credit

                  Originally posted by TiredofPaying View Post
                  And fees that were not explained and not required as a condition of getting the loan but which had been added to the Total Credit are suspect? If so, would this make the agreement unenforceable?

                  BTW I couldn't find the SI on the OPSI website. Thought I was making a complete hash of it.

                  ToP
                  Hi

                  No I would call it theft.

                  If they were asking you to repay money that you had not recieved in your advance, and they were not even tryin to discuise the fact by calling it a charge, i think that would be theft.

                  THis whole protection i think came about because of the situation in the car HP market.

                  What dealers would do (some still are) is : You go into their dealership and you buy a car on HP, the dealer then says oh there is a setting up fee but dont worry we will put into the charge for credit so you can just pay it over time with your repayments.
                  But the dont they put it onto the credit, that way they get an increased kick back from the credit company because they think they have sold more credit,it looks to you like you are getting a better interest rate than you are, and it looks to their boss like they have got a better price for the car the only one that ends up paying is the poor customer.

                  Peter

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Beginners Guide to Total Charge for Credit

                    Not sure if you have seen this, so ill post it anyway.

                    http://www.hendersonchambers.co.uk/C...mentFinalF.pdf
                    If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Beginners Guide to Total Charge for Credit

                      Originally posted by pompeyfaith View Post
                      Not sure if you have seen this, so ill post it anyway.

                      http://www.hendersonchambers.co.uk/C...mentFinalF.pdf

                      Hi Yes

                      It was never really a goer was it.

                      Problem with credit card agreements is they have no fixed term, unlike a fixed sum agreement, you cannot calculate the TCC and TAP at the onset of the agreement.

                      This means that challenging the accuracy of the credit limit or interest on execution is impossible.

                      THe interst is charged monthly, so you do not know if it is correct untill you recive your first statement which is at least a month after the agreement is made. You can hardley challenge the agreement for being improperly executed all you can do is accuse the creditor of breach of contract.

                      THe credt limt does not have to be stated any way as an amount, and even f it were you would not know what it is untill you reached it again a breach of contract not an improper execution.

                      The APR can be calculated from the interest from the monthly rate,because there are no other charges in the TCC other than interest.

                      So mathematically you would say that it would also work the other way around, however as the judge pointed out, the prescribed term is the interest so you cannot do it the other way arround.

                      Peter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Beginners Guide to Total Charge for Credit

                        The money was not received from the lender. The Admin Fee was paid (by me and not from the amount shown on the opening balance) at the same time as the first instalment. It's only when I sit down and think about where the money went that I realise that there's probably been a bit of crafy footwork. Does this invalidate or make the agreement unenforceable? I'll bet that there will be a lot of people digging out their agreements to see if the opening balance is the same as the Total Credit shown on their agreement. I didn't realise as my agreement was before CCA 2006 and when I got my first statement it didn't go back to the beginning of the agreement. Was the first statement supposed to show the life of the agreement? I bet the lenders breathed a sigh of relief when they got away with not showing everbody's opening balance!

                        I wonder how many sales were written up this way?

                        ToP

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Beginners Guide to Total Charge for Credit

                          Does

                          Southern Pacific Personal Loans Limited v Mr Michael Walker & Anr ([2009] EWCA Civ 1176)

                          affect the adding of Charges for Credit onto the Total Credit? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

                          ToP

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Beginners Guide to Total Charge for Credit

                            Originally posted by TiredofPaying View Post
                            Does

                            Southern Pacific Personal Loans Limited v Mr Michael Walker & Anr ([2009] EWCA Civ 1176)

                            affect the adding of Charges for Credit onto the Total Credit? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

                            ToP
                            HI

                            Complicated one this.

                            If we start at Wilson we see a simpler scenario, here the fee of £250 was added into the total credit figure, interest was charged on this figure and that interest made up the charge for credit.

                            Straight forward breach.

                            As the walker judgment goes to pains to point out it is the substance of the regulation that is the paramount importance, that being that the interest rate being represented by the agreement was correct.

                            The ratio of total credit to total charge for credit was incorrect in Wilson because the total credit was loaded with a fee that should have been in the total charge for credit. The interest rate generated by this ratio would have been totally incorrect and not representative of the value of the loan.

                            In Walker there was a different scenario where the total credit figure was correctly quoted but an additional sum had been added in order to procure extra interest.
                            This at first hearing sounds like the same a in the Wilson case but it is not.
                            You have to remember it is about the substance, the ratio of the two terms (total credit and total charge for credit.)
                            Just because interest is being charged on the extra sum does not mean it is credit, what defines it, is its place in the ratio, it is stated in the agreement that it is a part of he total charge for credit.
                            The interest rate for the agreement would have been calculated correctly using this ratio the substance of the agreement would be correct.

                            However the judgement then goes on to consider the secondary breach, that is that the total charge for credit figure is not correct because the interest generated by the additional sum is not included in it.

                            I must admit I agree with this conclusion, this was dismissed in the final judgement because it is not strictly what the regulations say is required. To me this is going against the substantive approach so strongly emphasised earlier in the judgement.

                            The interest rate for the loan is going to depend on the total charge for credit and this will include the interest generated by the additional sum.

                            I agree with the judge that said that this was a breach of section 65 and should in my opinion have been subject to sanction under 127(1).
                            It would also mean that the APR calculation would be incorrect which for some reason was not mentioned.

                            Sorry if this is a bit convoluted but like the judge said it is complex and you did
                            ask
                            Regards
                            Peter
                            Last edited by peterbard; 17th August 2010, 23:46:PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Beginners Guide to Total Charge for Credit

                              Thanks for that Peter and don't apologise. It's very interesting. I can see why they have taken the Admin fee and stuck it onto the Total Credit as it's to gather interest over the life of the agreement and I can see that it alters the ratio and therefore the APR. Are you saying that in Wilson the Admin Fee was added to the Total Credit and left there but in Walker the Admin Fee was put into the Total Credit figure to generate interest and then that Admin Fee and the interest it generated were then put back into the Total Charge for Credit to reset the balance and calculate the interest rate? This re-set being recorded somewhere in the agreement.

                              Is APR important with regard to making the agreement enforceable? I read that it is only there as a guideline and, in any case, it is only representative at the beginning of the agreement.

                              ToP

                              Comment

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