CCA letter - Help needed please.

[coolster]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

Thanks BillandBen

I'll send the CPR on Monday to MBNA's solicitor with signed for delivery.

Just to clarify, if I acknowledge on Monday and get an extra 14 days to submit my defence will the case automatically go to court after that time even if the CPR hasn't been returned?

I was going to use the CPR I found at consumerwiki and adapt it to my circumstances.

http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....Your_Advantage

[TiredofPaying]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

Hi Coolster, most important that you acknowledge online within the timescale and then put in a defence before the next timescale expires. Print out or screen grab (ctrl and print screen then use paint from under accessories to save the screen) any form and file away. From memory (discussed previously) it's 5 days for service then you have 14 days to acknowledge so that's 19 days from the date on the N1 then you have another 14 days from the end of the ack period to file a defence. Get a CPR31.14 off ASAP and keep the records of the letter you have sent and the posting. Some people advocate not signing as the creditor may copy your signature and then put it onto a cobbled up agreement. Personally, I have no experience of this practice so I can't comment on a personal level but if you're worried then there are ways of getting round that - sign with your other hand, use a different sig, get somebody else to sign it per pro, don't sign it, use signature guard. To stall for time the creditor or their sols may ask for further proof that you are the debtor. If they've been sending you personal info then they already know who you are so do not send them your passport, your birth certificate or anything else. They will probaly lose it then you're really screwed and they won't accept liability. They do not need to see your utility bills either or your bank statements. Sorry, getting angry now!

The solicitors should give you a copy of the docs mentioned in the N1 within 7 days. They probably won't as they probably haven't got them and they will have to refer back to the Creditor. If that is the case then you should then file an embarrassed defence online, which basically says that you can't submit a full defence as you don't know what you're supposed to be defending. 90% of claims go undefended so the solicitors save themselves work by going ahead without the docs as they have a good chance that they won't need to bother the Creditor. Additionally, the creditors think the same so they don't have the docs available either. Terrible way to proceed, but that's just my opinion. The courts should allow more claims to be struck out if the creditors and sols are not in a position to proceed but they don't as they know who pays their wages. What may happen is the solicitors have a copy of the CCA and they send it to you or, more likely, they write to you and say they haven't got it so they will extend the time by which you have to file your defence. When you get that letter you may want to write to the court and tell them that the sols haven't got the agreement that they mention in their POC (black mark for the sols as they shouldn't really waste court time by submitting a claim without the paperwork on which they base it) and enclose a copy of the sol's letter so that the court can see that firstly you're being responsible by asking the sols to produce the doc, secondly that the sols are wasting court time and thirdly that you are only witholding a proper defence until such time as you have the doc in your hand.

When the sols finally produce the doc (I have one instance of asking in April and gettting it in August - so much for 7 days. It used to be a level 4 offence with a hefty fine if they didn't produce but presumably that got too much. Shame the debtors don't get the same level of sympathy) you will have to produce a defence and there's lots of people on here who can help. Don't get too worried about the bullying tactics of the sols. Some of them obviously haven't read their own code of practice! If it gets too much then complain to the SRA or come back here and people here who have been through the mill will give you moral support.

Once you get the CPR31.14 in the post (7 days for them to reply but don't hold your breath) in the post then you need to send off a Subject Access Request to the Creditor (40 days for them to reply...) which will basically show you what cards they're holding. Just like poker...

If you're needing a SAR template then you should find one hereabouts. If not then I'll let you have a look at one that I used recently. When you get your SAR, if it's complete, you will see all manner of things that may surprise you. I found out from mine that a debt collector was claiming that he had been to my house on a day when I was at home. I think he may have some explaining to do...

I hope that helps, the above is just my personal opinion and from my own experience.

ToP

[coolster]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

ToP,

Thanks again. I'll get to work on this first thing tomorrow. As soon as the CPR is off I'll start on the SAR - if I may perhaps come back to you at that time for the example of the SAR you mentioned if I can't find one - I'm sure I will though.

Thanks

Coolster

[coolster]

CCA not supplied - court case imminent

HI,

After some much valued help from this forum following receipt of a N1 from Northmapton I issued a CPR31.14 to the alleged creditor's solicitors (Reston's) asking for the CCA.

Received a lovely letter back stating that they've had to request it from their client (MBNA). So the 12 days limit is up however they're still going ahead with the court case on the basis that 'I should know what my defence is without sight of the Credit Agreement' and that 'the bank would have supplied me with an executed copy of the agreement at the time it was executed or within 7 days of the time it was executed'.

I was wondering how I should move from here - I anticipate the case will be sometime early next week based on the date the N1 was issued and I want to put my defence together now.

Advice would be appreciated.

[Amethyst]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

Have moved your post to your original thread save peeps having to look to find the history of your claim.

I'll have a read back through now xx

[Amethyst]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

Well the claim is so vague I think you would be perfectly entitled to enter an embarrased defence stating you have asked for the documents under the CPR and none have been forthcoming. Theres no account number on it and the date the agreement was made is vague which kind of initimates they don't know.

Did you get default notice etc from MBNA prior to the claim, and a letter before action (or is that what the restons representing mbna letter was?)

This

This claim quickly followed a letter from Reston's telling me they were representing MBNA. They also wanted to know income v outgoings and offered me a reduced figure for early settlement - amount not known. I replied by explaining I was in a DMP with Payplan which MBNA had as far as I know accepted and I had been paying into for about a year.

will stand you in good stead to get an affordable installment amount on the debt with the court, Restons though are known for heading straight for charging orders, so you also want to take that into consideration.

Think it will have to be in tmw or Monday latest though.

[coolster]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

Amethyst,

Thanks for your reply. I haven't got any record of receiving a default notice, I asked for a copy of one in my CPR31.14 request as a 'default balance' was referred to but they said a notice wasn't mentioned in the POC and as such would CPR31.14 did not apply.

The only pre-N1 letter was the one from Restons's saying they were acting for MBNA.

When you say enter an embarrassed defence could you point me in the direction of wording for this? My research was pointing me to 127(3) because without the CCA I won't know if the prescribed terms are there or not.

Thanks again.

[Amethyst]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

yep, but they could reconstitute one and really you want it to see the terms, which account this claim is for as it's unclear and check enforceability. if they dont have it, or even a record of the date it was made then 127(3) comes into play anyway. Don't be too technical with it else you risk getting the courts and their backs up.

can you post up a copy of the 31.14 request for disclosure you sent. and yes they are right 31.14 doesnt cover the default notice as its not mentioned. but you should have had one from mbna so a SAR would be a plan to them if you havent already.

[coolster]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

Thanks,

Noted your comments - pleased you said not to get too technical, seems tempting to use legal jargon despite them being the pro's and I'm the amateur in this.

I'll have to post my own letter later as I haven't got access to a scanner just now but I extracted it from the consumerwiki site at
http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index....Your_Advantage

[coolster]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

Hello again Amethyst,

Following on from earlier I'm attaching an edited copy of the CPR 31.14 I sent.

Would you suggest I go with the embarrasssed defence based on the content?

[Tools]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

If you do decide to go down the route of SAR at any time then here is a template you could adapt this one

Subject Access Request Data Protection Act - How to get your information.

[Amethyst]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

Its a bit templated waffle which is uneccessary and gets their backs up (sorry)

Just noticed an edit on the POC after PARTICULARS - is that your agreement number ?



If it isn;t your embarrased defence should say basically :-



1. I, xxxx of xxxxx make this statement as my defence to the claim brought by xxxxxxxx

2. The claimants particulars of claim are vague. The claimant has not disclosed sufficient information to enable the defendant to identify the agreement that forms the basis of the claim.

3. No documents supporting the claims in the particulars have been offered despite a request to the claimant for further information under CPR 31.14 dated xx/xx/xxxx.

4. Further to the above, the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

Statement of Truth



If it is it needs to be more direct regarding the credit agreement copy.

[TiredofPaying]

Re: CCA letter - Help needed please.

Hi Coolster, interesting to see that you say you haven't received a Default Notice and that Reston's said that they would not supply it because it wasn't mentioned in the POC. They're right of course but it's got me wondering... Your SAR should give you the dates that they claim to have sent a DN. They may or may not be able to show you a copy of the DN sent to you (allegedly!)

Like the CPR31.14 letter - looks like DiddyDicky's - he's got a lot of experience of Reston's!

Don't forget to send everything by 'signed for' delivery, print of the Proof of Delivery (POD) and file everything away. Sols are very busy and tend to lose docs (allegedly!) so when you get to the BIG DAY you will be able to hand out copies when they say they didn't get your letters. Any letters you receive then make a note of the day you received it, save the envelope and, if it's a 'signed for' delivery containing a SAR, then print off the POD with your own signature on it. It might sound daft but at least it shows the date that the SAR finally arrived as it's possible that the date on the SAR letter head may be incorrect (sorry, I'm just a cynic at heart and over the past few years I've learnt that banks are not to be trusted). I have a SAR where the letter accompanying it was dated a week or so earlier than the SAR was posted to me suggesting that the SAR was within time limits. My filed POD shows otherwise.

You may find that the SAR is incomplete. My personal experience is that you will have to ask for documents a few times before you get them. Like most people they will only give what they think they can get away with. This may be because they don't know where the docs are located (possible) or they don't want to show their hand (tempted to say probable there...)

Keep up the pressure - it'll make you feel better.

ToP