Confused By CCA. Help Needed Please

[bonzo]

Hi all,
This is my first post, so hello to everyone I hope I've posted in the correct forum!
If I give a broad outline of my query and perhaps I can be guided to the correct place where I can provide more specific detail about my issues.
I have various credit card and loan accounts from the late 90s that are in dispute (Foolishly I was paying them via a debt management company until three years ago so they're can't be statute barred yet) and have been in default of my CCA requests for two years or more.
My confusion relates to the recent test cases around the CCA and what is/isn't enforceable and I have two general points I would welcome guidance and advice on.
Firstly what is the current legal thinking where the creditor or DCA fails to provide or admits they don't have an agreement and can they still pursue it in court?
And secondly where they provide an application form only with no credit agreement and no terms. What action are they likely to pursue?
Any feedback would be much appreciated.

[bonzo]

Re: Confused By CCA. Help Needed Please

Anyone?

[Curlyben]

Re: Confused By CCA. Help Needed Please

Watchya bonzo, sorry only just getting to you on these queries.

Now which test Case are you referring to and what's causing you confusion ?

Firstly what is the current legal thinking where the creditor or DCA fails to provide or admits they don't have an agreement and can they still pursue it in court?

Assuming you have this in WRITING the they would have difficulty in taking action. Obviously it's not a simple cut and dried situation. In the case of NO agreement at all with an admission of that fact then yes, but a simple ignore of a CCA is a different matter. As per CCA s77-79 after 12 working days your request is in default and they cannot take further action until they comply.

And secondly where they provide an application form only with no credit agreement and no terms. What action are they likely to pursue?

The fact it is a application form doesn't automatically preclude enforcement action. An application CAN be an agreement. Of course to comply with CCA it must contain the required prescribed terms.

The problem that's emerging is that some courts are slightly confused on what Carey is actually referring to. IF action is started then you MUST make the Carey position clear, that is relates to CCA requests under s77-79 and NOT court action at all, so an actual True Copy, even the original, WOULD be required to pursue the debt in court.

Did that help at all, or just confused even more.

It's difficult to make generalisations as each case has different nuances.

[bonzo]

Re: Confused By CCA. Help Needed Please

Watchya bonzo, sorry only just getting to you on these queries.

Now which test Case are you referring to and what's causing you confusion ?

Assuming you have this in WRITING the they would have difficulty in taking action. Obviously it's not a simple cut and dried situation. In the case of NO agreement at all with an admission of that fact then yes, but a simple ignore of a CCA is a different matter. As per CCA s77-79 after 12 working days your request is in default and they cannot take further action until they comply.

The fact it is a application form doesn't automatically preclude enforcement action. An application CAN be an agreement. Of course to comply with CCA it must contain the required prescribed terms.

The problem that's emerging is that some courts are slightly confused on what Carey is actually referring to. IF action is started then you MUST make the Carey position clear, that is relates to CCA requests under s77-79 and NOT court action at all, so an actual True Copy, even the original, WOULD be required to pursue the debt in court.

Did that help at all, or just confused even more.

It's difficult to make generalisations as each case has different nuances.

Thanks Curlyben,
I guess I'm just trying to work out which letters I treat as threatograms and which accounts I should take seriously and take advice on in advance of any possible action.

In my case I have two accounts where they have been in default of my CCA request for other two years. Even after a SAR they still only provided an application form with no terms included. Is there anything else I can do to establish if the OC or DCA have the required agreements?
I have another case where the DCA is over three years in default of my CCA request, when I sent a SAR they forwarded a letter with my name and address, yet despite this they are still attempting to collect over 4 times the original alleged debt.
What's causing me confusion about the Carey case is it still worth sending CCA requests or as above are there other means of establishing if the OC or DCA actually has the agreements?
In addition should I request a copy of the default notice?
In relation to all of the above should I request a copy of the default notice as it's so long ago I don't have and don't remember if I ever had one? If one has been issued what bearing does this have on my defence under the CCA?
Also if I were to going into specific detail should I do so here or on another sub-forum?
For reference all of my accounts are pre-2000 and relate to credit cards.

[RobinWRM]

Re: Confused By CCA. Help Needed Please

Hi Bonzo
If your accounts have been defaulted the copy DN should have been provided with SAR. If the OC provided printouts of their computer records on you you may find an entry where they have defaulted your account. I would also look at the application form as that itself can be the unexecuted agreement when you first signed it which becomes executed when signed by creditor. Strange thing is the OC dosen't normally have the back of the application form. They can recon one which can only be used as hearsay evidence but they are now trying, with some success i believe, to use Carey as case law to provide the reconned terms without following law re hearsay evidence.
R