Unenforceable agreements

[stargazerforest]

How can I work out if an agreement is unenforceable??? I really do not want to pay another company for the privalegde of doing this but I am really struggling with my debts and I just wanted to know if I can work out who is enforceable and who isn't so I can then see where I can go from here.

I just dont know where to start and that is why I was contemplating a company to do it for me but after reading this forum I've noticed you dont approve or actually believe in those companies and think most are scams. I'm struggling enough as it is and dont want to get into more problems.

If anyone can offer some advice that would be good. I've got a bank I'm not longer banking with looking into my bank charges claim but in addition to that obviously if something isn't enforceable I dont want to be paying it. I have debts with lots of people including:

First Credit (who took 2 of my debts over from someone else)
Lloyds TSB
First Plus (a secured loan)
Apex Credit (who took it over from someone else)

and a few others.

quite a lot of my debts have been sold on but lloyds and egg still have the original debts.

All help is appreciated.

[Amethyst]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

Hi stargazer

if you have a look at this thread - ~~~ Consumer Credit Agreements - A Guide ~~~~ inc. Letters - Legal Beagles and send the first letter to each of your creditors thats the first step. You'll need to send a £1 cheque or postal order with each.

Once they come back you can post on here, you can upload scans of the documents so long as you remove any personally identifiable info on them, and we can look at them for you.

The agreements will need to have been made before April 2007 to even consider going for unenforceability.

any questions at all please feel free to come and ask.

Ame
xx

[stargazerforest]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

Will this still be ok for anyone that has passed it to a Debt collection agency ages ago? I have been paying payment plans for about 4 years now as per the advice of the CAB but with my problems getting worse right now I just would like to see where this would take me. Reading the link it looks like I'd have to have done this at the beginning? Am I too late?

[Amethyst]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

Nope you can check out your agreements are enforceable for as long as the debts active (well its only really any use then) Its a good idea to request the agreements anyway and check assignment to any debt collectors as often if they pass things back to original creditors they are better to deal with.

If you are struggling with your payment plans you might need to review them. Are Cab administering the plan for you or are you doing it yourself ?

If you want to go through your whole situation and get some freindly support then thats what we're here for. Good starting place would be to complete a full income/expenditure sheet - we have a simple one here Legal Beagles which would give a good overview and as you started doing list your debts and any priority debts (mortgage/rent/council tax etc) and the situation with each.

[stargazerforest]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

I have been administering them myself. But I am in the process of filling out the endless forms for the CAB to get them to look at it again... but i'm not sure it's worth doing until I start my new job in the next 2-8 weeks. Then I will have more income and be able to work it out better. Right now I dont have enough to pay mortgage, council tax and secured loan let alone anything else.

But at least a new job is on the horizon. Also I've just had an insurance policy pay out some money to clear the council tax and the overall arrears on mortgage but I have to start that job soon otherwise things will go right back in.

once the new job is started I'll be able to pay more people and then can arrange plans properly as right now my financial statement is in the negative before my unsecured debts. Sad really.

Anyhow... will be off to bed now... but will come back tomorrow and look into it all more. What a helpful site.

Nope you can check out your agreements are enforceable for as long as the debts active (well its only really any use then) Its a good idea to request the agreements anyway and check assignment to any debt collectors as often if they pass things back to original creditors they are better to deal with.

If you are struggling with your payment plans you might need to review them. Are Cab administering the plan for you or are you doing it yourself ?

If you want to go through your whole situation and get some freindly support then thats what we're here for. Good starting place would be to complete a full income/expenditure sheet - we have a simple one here Legal Beagles which would give a good overview and as you started doing list your debts and any priority debts (mortgage/rent/council tax etc) and the situation with each.

[Amethyst]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

excellent, sounds like things are on the up

I would, if you can, get your claim for bank charges in as soon as poss tho as you may get in as in financial hardship and get a partial refund while we wait for the end of the test case..

but yes, we can go through things tmw.

night xxx

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

What about rebates on the council tax? Would you have been entitled to a reduction as you were out of work?

And the secured loan, did you have any payment protection there to help while you were not working?

[stargazerforest]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

My situation is rediculous really. I was self employed for a few years. So because of that I'm not entitled to job seekers allowance. My hubby has just over £1000 a month coming in so it just takes us over the income bracket to claim ANYTHING income related. So can't get council tax credit, can't get working tax credit, can't get job seekers...As far as they're concerned unless my husband looses his job too... he earns enough to keep us... dispite before we needed 2 incomes just to survive. So really... things have gotten quite bad here. Things are on the way up. I have a position on it's way that will start to pay me again, I have already sent the paperwork off to my bank for the bank charges thing... waiting to hear from them. and fingers crossed I can get everything going in the right direction.

I will have to see into this unenforceable thing though. As some accounts been sold on, some not, some recently some not, all debt is at least 4 years old now... but I've gotten confused who has what these days. I just need to know if any of them are unenforcable and if they are what to do about them. I do worry about assigning a company to do it as I dont want to make matters worse for myself as life is hard enough as it is.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

Once you start the ball rolling and CCA your first creditor, it will all become quite habit forming. You will learn a lot along the way.

[Amethyst]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

You can do it yourself. If you write a list of all your creditors/dmcs etc that you have currently on your DMP and those you havent made arrangements with then we can help you through what to do with each, first step is usually a CCA request or a SAR (subject access request under the data protection act), to get all your information and see what can be done with them ranging from reclaiming charges and PPI to unenforceability.

We cant say which companies are enforceable and which arent as there are varying agreements within the same companies and some are and some arent theres no simple answer, its a matter of sending of a batch of letters and seeing what comes back.

Have you had an Income.expenditure form back to complete from the bank and have you sent it in? also which bank is it (they all act differently)

[stargazerforest]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

I have had the income/expenditure form back from the Abbey (by bank). And I've sent it back.

dmcs? DMP? sorry I'm trying to work out the initials. I have a list of most of my creditors, and account numbers. If I just start with the ones I've got while I'm checking the ones I'm unsure of then I can learn what to do and go forth from there.

The CCA request... that's the letter template I saw somewhere on this site isn't it? Exactly what is it I'm meant to be getting?

Thank you for your help.

You can do it yourself. If you write a list of all your creditors/dmcs etc that you have currently on your DMP and those you havent made arrangements with then we can help you through what to do with each, first step is usually a CCA request or a SAR (subject access request under the data protection act), to get all your information and see what can be done with them ranging from reclaiming charges and PPI to unenforceability.

We cant say which companies are enforceable and which arent as there are varying agreements within the same companies and some are and some arent theres no simple answer, its a matter of sending of a batch of letters and seeing what comes back.

Have you had an Income.expenditure form back to complete from the bank and have you sent it in? also which bank is it (they all act differently)

[Amethyst]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

hiya xx

this one to your debts that are with dca's (debt collection agencies)

Dear Sir/Madam

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxx
YOUR REF: xxxx

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

With reference to the above account, I request that you send me a true copy of this credit agreement before I will correspond further on this matter.

This is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request.

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

For the sake of clarity, may I also draw your attention to the following:
Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.175
Where under this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment as agent of the creditor or owner under the regulated agreement, he shall be deemed to be under a contractual duty to the creditor or owner to transmit the notice, or remit the payment, to him forthwith.

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

1. True copy of original signed executed credit agreement
2. FULL Statement of account
3. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from (original creditor) and (DCA)
4. A fair processing notice.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment.
I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

and this one to the ones still with the original creditors

Company Name
Address
Dear Sir/Madam

Ref:− Your Reference

With reference to the above agreement, we would be grateful if you would send us a copy of this credit agreement.

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), we are entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. We enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

We understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

Your Name

These will get you your copies of original credit agreements. Each agreement needs a seperate letter and a £1 cheque/postal order.

When you get any replies let us know and you can post up or email us the agreements/letters to have a look over, then you can look at next steps. At that stage it will likely be best if you start a new thread on the forum for each one so we don't get confused. Each is likely to be slightly different what you want to do next but the start is these letters. This is how you find out if the agreements a) exist b) are enforceable and c) have been assigned correctly to the DCA's.

Hope that helps

Make a note when you send each as they have 12 working days from receipt to provide you with the credit agreement else they enter default and are unable to enforce the debt without a court order

Ame
xx

[stargazerforest]

Re: Unenforceable agreements

Thank you so much. Will print off the letters and send them out sometime in the next couple of weeks (when I have the occasional pound or two to get started). Money is tight. Will keep you all informed as to how things go.

thank you for your help.