Veilside01702 vs MINT

[veilside01702]

Well this is round 2 for me after defeating the mighty EGG a couple of years ago.....
I had to stop helping out on here after our fist baby was born and the fostering malarky got too much.....lol
My other half works and I am in charge of our madhouse with baby and 2 teenagers, one with special needs....something had to give.....
But now I am used to 'time management'.....or hiding in the garage as us men call it.....lol
I am back to chew on a Mint or 2.....
I will post again when I get a reply on the CCA request and see if the original agreement was executed properly......

I have also had them refuse to renew the 'credit token' or credit card as most people know it....
They are using it as a repayment loan now.......I have had 4 different 'cards' with different numbers on them....can this be used as they didn't send a new agreement with every card they sent me??????

Any help and advice greatfully received.......I look forward to speaking to you all again....
Russ

[veilside01702]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

Right....well where to start.....
4 months without any statements from Mint, they claim Royal mail has lost 4 months worth and 4 sets of replacement copies..... then admitted they had accidentally put my statements on hold....
They have also claimed I didn't make payments to my account but taken the card payments by phone and applied them to my old account. This ended up in credit until someone there realised, but no appollogy for their mistake or refund of charges!
I am Not in arrears, Not with a DCA.....
But angry after they cancelled my card, told me I now had a loan and not a credit card. (changed from a rolling credit to a fixed credit without even talking to me).
I fired off a CCA agreement request and the £1.00 postal order..... Recorded delivery...
Now it is 14 days later and No response...... and have signature as proof of delivery...

So now it is a waiting game.......

[veilside01702]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

Well I got a copy of a made up form that mint claim is the 'True' copy of my consumer credit agreement. Unfortunately I have my fiancee's original signed copy of hers and this is NOTHING like the one I would have signed in 2004. They are trying to get away with no signature by quoting regulations 3(2) and 7(1) of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983. They also claim they do not even have to supply a document containing any personal information, again quoting regulation 3(2). The CCA request was on 22nd July 2009, received on 23rd July 2009 and signed for. Unenforceable from 7th August 2009 and a summary offense committed on 7th September. I am up to 16 harrassing telephone calls from them, trying to pressure me to pay up, 2 default notices by post and two £12 charges for not paying on time.
I am now using the Ombudsman to pressure them as I am now struggling to keep on top of this due to my worsening disability. They are making me worse due to the stress of their phone calls and letters now...
Twice since the calls started I have had severe asthma attacks and ended up in hospital....
The document they sent me even says it is an application form, not a Consumer Credit Agreement....
I Believe this is a made up document, using certain information from a Consumer Credit Agreement, but knowing being passed off as a Genuine copy of my executed Credit Agreement!
What can I do if they have knowingly falsified documents???
I really need some help with this one....
I'm Not trying to avoid a debt, just get them to act responsibly toward me and other customers...
Any Idea's Curlyben????
Russ

[veilside01702]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

Well today I got a default notice under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 from Mint...

I know I shouldn't have, but I telephoned them to remind them that they still haven't supplied my agreement.... basically to see what they say......

That is when I was informed, "Well Mr 'veilside' on 28th of August 2009 we told you we haven't got a copy of the agreement!".......lol
I started laughing and asked her to repeat herself, so she did....
I then asked what they had sent me instead on 28th August 2009 and she replied, "We used our computer system to make a copy for you of the information that the agreement would have had within it!"...... Again I started laughing...
I then asked, "So you don't have the agreement and you are still pursuing me for this alleged debt?"
She said, "Yes, Mr 'veilside', you still have to pay what you owe!"
I then asked, "So you have knowingly made up a legal document that is covered under the Consumer Credit Act, because you couldn't find the real one?"
She said, "Yes!"
I then took her name and details, as the conversation was recorded......lol
I asked for a copy of this conversation to be added to my SAR's request and she said, "The calls are only for our own record and training, So you can't get a copy!"
I then informed her of the Data Protection Act 1998 and insisted I was entitled to a copy!

OMG.....they have admitted Fraud..... as well as knowingly breaching the Consumer Credit Act & DPA 1998....

Surely they will get crucified for making up a Consumer Credit Agreement?
It is after all a legally binding document, isn't it?

I need a copy of this telephone recording asap!

Then they are toast.........

who do I report this to???????

[maruvian]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

Did you put in your SAR that you required transcripts of any telephone conversations you had had with them..??

[veilside01702]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

Yep, transcripts, on cd if possible and done this with Egg before.....
If they don't send this I have dates, times, names, what number I dialed, date they say it was entered on their system and by whom.......lol
See if they delete this info off their computer system asap and delete the recording of the phonecall.....lol
Bet they do......
we'll see if they comply with my full disclosure under the SAR'S request.....
I just need to work out how to handle the next step......
Wait for copies of calls and data
or
send a letter to tell them I know what they have done and let them wipe the proof??

[maruvian]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

Wait to see what they send then if they don't send transcripts write back and tell them they have not fully complied with the SAR, give them a further 14 days. If after this they have not complied then you have two choises report to the ICO or file in court. Send the next letter to their complience officer.

[Curlyben]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

ROFLMAO

You MUST ask for confirmation of that fact in writing.
Nothing beats a good papertrail...

[Mochamoo]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

Then they are toast.........

So will be the girly on the phone

[veilside01702]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

If I specifically ask for the notes from the 28th August and a copy of this phonecall then they will know what I am upto...??

Also today I got my SAR's request returned to me with a letter stating that I had not included a £10 fee!
Yet I stapled a £10 postal order to the letter and there are holes in the letter they returned exactly where I stapled it.....
Thieving buggers nicked me tenner too.........grrrrrrrrr
Any idea's.....Just return the SAR's request with another £10 postal order??

Or do I do another one and add the specific dates of details I require, adding a few phone calls to mask what I really want?

Any Idea's how to handle this??????

Russ

[veilside01702]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

Hmmm... Just noticed a few points in this case :- McGuffick v Royal Bank of Scotland....

13. Correspondence ensued in which MJP threatened proceedings for a declaration of
unenforceability by the court if a copy of the agreement were not produced within 28
days and for an injunction if the claimant’s credit rating were affected. By 11 May
2009, the bank had located a copy of the agreement and wrote to MJP enclosing it and
stating that recovery action would now continue. Through inadvertence, the bank
overlooked that it had not provided a signed statement of account as required by
section 77(1). Anyone ever had a signed statement of account?

105. In his reply submissions, Mr Moran realistically recognised that the court was not
going to grant the injunction he sought. He said that he and those who instructed him
were concerned that the court should make some reservation that there might well be
circumstances in which the court might grant such an injunction. I agree with Mr
Handyside that it would be quite wrong to make any such open-ended reservation and
I decline to do so. The availability of injunctive relief depends upon the facts of each
particular case and on the evidence presented to the court in the particular case.
Whether in another case another court might grant an injunction would depend on the
facts and the evidence before that court. I take this as the judge left the door open for each case to stand on it's own merit?

99. Furthermore, even if, contrary to the conclusion I have reached, reporting to the CRAs
did amount to enforcement, it is difficult to see that there would be any purpose
served in granting the injunction sought. That is because the reporting by the bank
merely reflects that the claimant has not paid the sum of £15,066.21 which has been
outstanding since June 2007. The credit record prior to 11 March 2009 showed that by
November 2007, the terms of the agreement had not been complied with, the account
was in arrears and the balance outstanding was £15,066.21. Even if the bank were
restrained from reporting during the period of non-compliance, the credit record
would continue to show those matters, so that no practical purpose would be served
by an injunction.

It seems to me that the judge agree's that every case should stand on it's own merit....
Due to the fact there was adverse data recorded prior to the CCA request not being complied with and from now on, since the agreement is back in force, there is no need to grant an injunction for the temporary 2 months time period that the agreement was unenforceable. I believe that had the agreement not been supplied or been a cobbled together fake, as we see all too often, the judge may have granted an injunction had the claimant acted responsibly and been paying the debt in the first place??
It appears the only way to stop a lender registering data with a CRA is by a court making the agreement completely unenforceable and void and then seeking an injunction?
I read this as the door is still open if the case in question can stand up to scrutiny, unlike the test case.....?
Why use a case like this as a test case and not one that has an unexecuted, false or missing agreement?
This guy didn't appear to even try to pay!
Then you have genuine people that pay the full monthly payments for 5 years and then ask for a copy of the agreement for a genuine reason!
Now we are tarred with the same brush, as trying to get out of paying our debts!

also, has this section been used to get a non existant or made up agreement made unenforceable permanently?
Can you get an non existent or made up agreement and debt based on that agreement wiped??
As it also throws up what cartel appear to be using to get customers.... The promise of everything you paid the creditor back under section 140(b)??????

Unfair relationships between creditors and debtors
140A (1) The court may make an order under section 140B in
connection with a credit agreement if it determines that the
relationship between the creditor and the debtor arising out of the
agreement (or the agreement taken with any related agreement) is
unfair to the debtor because of one or more of the following—
(a) any of the terms of the agreement or of any related agreement;
(b) the way in which the creditor has exercised or enforced any of his
rights under the agreement or any related agreement;
(c) any other thing done (or not done) by, or on behalf of, the creditor
(either before or after the making of the agreement or any related
agreement)…..

Powers of court in relation to unfair relationships
140B (1) An order under this section in connection with a credit
agreement may do one or more of the following—
(a) require the creditor, or any associate or former associate of his, to
repay (in whole or in part) any sum paid by the debtor or by a surety
by virtue of the agreement or any related agreement (whether paid to
the creditor, the associate or the former associate or to any other
person);
(b) require the creditor, or any associate or former associate of his, to
do or not to do (or to cease doing) anything specified in the order in
connection with the agreement or any related agreement;
(c) reduce or discharge any sum payable by the debtor or by a surety
by virtue of the agreement or any related agreement;
(d) direct the return to a surety of any property provided by him for
the purposes of a security;
(e) otherwise set aside (in whole or in part) any duty imposed on the
debtor or on a surety by virtue of the agreement or any related
agreement;
(f) alter the terms of the agreement or of any related agreement;
(g) direct accounts to be taken, or (in Scotland) an accounting to be
made, between any persons.

Any input and thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated......

[veilside01702]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

I have a cunning plan........ well a sort of reverse idea on the CCA request....
Can anyone give me some advice if RBS would actually respond to this letter??


Data Controller: THE ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND PLC
36 ST ANDREW SQUARE
EDINBURGH
MIDLOTHIAN
EH2 2YB

Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to you as a customer with a few questions about how your company processes my data, enters it onto your computer system, safeguards and disposes of hard copies of sensitive documents. I am interested in the way in which you process my data securely in todays climate of Identity fraud.

1. If I send you a letter or legal document, would you scan or type the contents of this document into your computer system or just file the hard copy?
2. Would you retain an original copy of this document as a hard copy and if so for how long?
3. How would you securely dispose of the original hard copy?
4. What precautions would you make to ensure that these sensitive documents do not fall into the wrong hands?
5. What format are your telephone calls recorded in and how are they securely protected?
6. What protocols are in place should my data be lost or misplaced?
7. If my data were lost or misplaced would you inform me immediately, so I could protect myself against identity fraud from this loss?
8. In what time frame would you expect or be required to inform me?

I would be grateful if you could reply in writing to each of my points raised to give me peace of mind that you are responsibly processing my data under the 'Data Protection Act 1998.'

Yours Sincerely

Veilside

[veilside01702]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

well spoke to ICO to clarify if the letter I was going to send asking how they process my data was going to get a response. The ICO said that Mint do not have to answer any questions about how they process our data or what they do if they lose it?
So they are free to do what they want, how they want, lose your details, cover it up and still lie to you???
I am therefore NOT sending this letter.........

BUT........

I have a new one I wanted to ask advice about prior to posting.........

Any thoughts anyone???????

To The Manager of Mint (RBS),
I am writing to you after a disclosure from a member of your staff that Mint have lost or misplaced a sensitive document and data held by your company under the Data Protection Act 1998.
I have been informed that you have been aware of this since 28th August 2009, when a note was added to your computer system acknowledging this fact. I was also informed that it is noted that I have been informed of the loss of my data held by you.
As yet I have received No Notification of any loss of data you hold regarding myself under the 'Data Protection Act 1998' from yourselves.
Can you please confirm if the Original Copy of the my Consumer Credit Agreement is No longer in your posession and that the sensitive data supplied to yourselves contained within this document has been lost?
I am even more concerned after receiving a completly different document sent to me also on 28th August 2009, that Mint staff claim is purportedly the missing document. If Mint staff were aware that this document and the sensitive data contained within this document were lost on 28th August 2009, why was I not informed so I could protect myself against Identity theft?
And how could you supply a 'Genuine' copy of a missing agreement and the data contained within that document if you were aware it is missing?

I am also extremely concerned and suspicious, that I have received my 'Subject Access Request' letter back, without the £10 postal order that was attached to it upon posting. It was returned, along with a letter claiming that the £10 fee was not included with this request. It appears that the staple holes are clearly visible on the top of this letter, where the Postal order was attached. Can you please confirm if this letter or envelope had been tampered with prior to it's arrival at your company, as it was sent first class recorded delivery with Royal Mail?
If the letter was not tampered with prior to it's arrival, could you please attempt to trace where this Postal Order has dissapeared to with some urgency!
I am again enclosing a 'New', 'Subject Access Request', for you to make a start on compiling the requested data, whilst you attempt to find the 'missing' Postal Order. Should you believe that the letter had been tampered with prior to it's arrival, please supply proof of this so I can attempt to claim compensation from Royal Mail. If this is your contention then please contact me in writing and I will hand deliver the required £10 payment to you at your offices in Southend on sea, to save further delays.
I look forward to a swift resolution to my complaints.

Yours Sincerely

Mr. Veilside

[veilside01702]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

Ok... Amy has helped revise this letter and being posted today with new SAR's request and another £10 cheque.....
Hopefully I may, if god is willing and hell freezes over get what I want....lol

[veilside01702]

Re: Veilside01702 vs MINT

Well yesterday I received yet another letter from MINT as their final letter after their last final letter a few weeks ago. They told me to go to the FOS if I disagreed, ignoring the fact that the FOS are already dealing with this and they are aware of this already....
Nice to see they check their own notes when writing back..... lol
They are denying there is any dispute and that they have sent a 'True copy' of the original CCA under the request....
I also spoke to Essex Trading Standards who told me that they cannot do anything about this even though the document MINT sent me is not the original agreement. They just said keep paying MINT as I borrowed the money and should pay it back....
Normally I would, but this is about needing to see the original agreement to check if they had the right to change a rolling credit agreement (credit card) to a fixed sum agreement (loan).
Mint did this in 2007-2008 and also stopped sending monthly statements for 6 months by 'mistake', so I didn't know when or how much to pay. Also I didn't have the giro slips to make any payment to them, so they added charges every month as by the time I had called them I was late paying.
I am waiting for the SAR's request to be done and receive the paperwork back along with the phonecalls.
Then it is the breach of data protection route as they have lost the agreement with my personal information on it and not told me. In fact they have attempted to hide it repeatedly....
I was told by trading standards not to take MINT to court in case they suddenly find the agreement somewhere and get it enforced....
They agreed that proving that MINT had lost my information/data was a better option and then they cannot suddenly find it if they take me to court later, as a judge could see this as an attempt for them to hide the document..... As in they can't have it both ways.... they either have it and won't supply it, or they have lost it and opened me up to Identity theft.....
Just waiting for reply to SAR's request now....
Let you know if and when I get anything back......