Help needed with Cabot Proof of debt.

[elefant man]

I would really appreciate people thoughts on my current situation with Cabot.

I had a letter from Cabot saying that they had tracked a debt that I owed.
I filled in a template letter and asked them to provide proof.
I had a letter back saying they would look into it and be back in touch.

Today I received a letter which is below (edited out any sensitive info) along with what they say is a copy of the agreement from Lloyds.

They also provided a copy of payments I have made (and still am making) to the original debt company that bought a debt that I owed to Lloyds.
I have never been informed that the debt has been moved transferred or sold. Which is why I asked them to prove what the debt was.

So that lands me here looking for any advice on my next steps.

The copy of the agreement they have provided is in my current address I have live here for 4 years and not the address where this debt, if it is the one I am paying to AIC would of been taken out.

COPY OF THE LETTER:


RE: (XXXXX) Lloyds Loan Account ending XXXXX - £XXXXX

I am writing further to our letter dated 04 September 2023.

My name is XXXXX, I have investigated your dispute and I hope to help you now by providing a resolution to this matter. I have attempted to call you on your mobile but have not been able to get through to you.

My understanding of your dispute

You don't recall owing money to XXXXX or XXXXX.

My investigation

To resolve your dispute, I have reviewed the information provided by XXXXX, XXXXX, and the information we hold on file.

Please find enclosed a copy of the credit agreement. The account was opened with Lloyds TSB on 17 September 2007 at your current address. You should have received correspondence making you aware of the account. Under the agreement you borrowed £XXXXX, after the charge of credit of £XXXXX was applied the total amount payable under the agreement was £XXXXX.
The account remained active for a period of one year and four months until 30 January 2009 when a default was registered. The account was later purchased by a company called Prime Credit.
XXXXX, XXXXX sister company purchased the account from XXXXX on 24 August 2012 with a balance of £XXXXX.

The account was later passed to XXXXX to manage. We later located the addresses PREVIOUS ADDRESS PREVIOUS ADDRESS TO THAT.
The account was placed with the agent XXXXX on 03 September 2014. XXXXX returned it to us on 08 May 2019.
We (XXXXX) located your back to your current address on 01 August 2023.

Since our purchase we have received £1,460.00 in payments from 24 August 2012 until 18 September 2023, these payments were initially passed to us from Lloyds, however the payments later started being paid to us by Allied. Continued payments to a defaulted account are clear acknowledgement of the debt. I have enclosed a copy of our transaction list for your review.
XXXXX is an Appointed Representative of XXXXX which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority with firm reference number XXXXX.

Conclusion

In light of the above I believe you're responsible for the account.
Whilst you're making payments, which we appreciate, these payments are being made to Allied who no longer hold the account. Please can you contact our Customer Operations Department on XXXXX to arrange a repayment plan. I want to assure you that we are keen to work with you to resolve this matter and we will only accept payments that are affordable for you. We may even be able to offer a discounted settlement on your balance.

I will hold the account for 21 days for you to contact our Customer Operations Department. If we do not hear from you within the 21 days, we will have to return this account to our collections process.
I hope this resolves your dispute; however, if you wish to discuss my letter further, please do not hesitate to contact me.

END OF COPY OF THE LETTER:


The agreement they sent is in my CURRENT address and not the address where the agreement would of ever been taken out. I have had no dealings with Lloyds in 8 years and have moved far away from where any agreement would of been made.


Thanks for reading and I would really appreciate any thoughts you have on this matter.

[echat11]

I would really appreciate people thoughts on my current situation with Cabot.

I had a letter from Cabot saying that they had tracked a debt that I owed.
I filled in a template letter and asked them to provide proof.
I had a letter back saying they would look into it and be back in touch.

Today I received a letter which is below (edited out any sensitive info) along with what they say is a copy of the agreement from Lloyds.

They also provided a copy of payments I have made (and still am making) to the original debt company that bought a debt that I owed to Lloyds.
I have never been informed that the debt has been moved transferred or sold. Which is why I asked them to prove what the debt was.

So that lands me here looking for any advice on my next steps.

The copy of the agreement they have provided is in my current address I have live here for 4 years and not the address where this debt, if it is the one I am paying to AIC would of been taken out.

COPY OF THE LETTER:


RE: (XXXXX) Lloyds Loan Account ending XXXXX - £XXXXX

I am writing further to our letter dated 04 September 2023.

My name is XXXXX, I have investigated your dispute and I hope to help you now by providing a resolution to this matter. I have attempted to call you on your mobile but have not been able to get through to you.

My understanding of your dispute

You don't recall owing money to XXXXX or XXXXX.

My investigation

To resolve your dispute, I have reviewed the information provided by XXXXX, XXXXX, and the information we hold on file.

Please find enclosed a copy of the credit agreement. The account was opened with Lloyds TSB on 17 September 2007 at your current address. You should have received correspondence making you aware of the account. Under the agreement you borrowed £XXXXX, after the charge of credit of £XXXXX was applied the total amount payable under the agreement was £XXXXX.
The account remained active for a period of one year and four months until 30 January 2009 when a default was registered. The account was later purchased by a company called Prime Credit.
XXXXX, XXXXX sister company purchased the account from XXXXX on 24 August 2012 with a balance of £XXXXX.

The account was later passed to XXXXX to manage. We later located the addresses PREVIOUS ADDRESS PREVIOUS ADDRESS TO THAT.
The account was placed with the agent XXXXX on 03 September 2014. XXXXX returned it to us on 08 May 2019.
We (XXXXX) located your back to your current address on 01 August 2023.

Since our purchase we have received £1,460.00 in payments from 24 August 2012 until 18 September 2023, these payments were initially passed to us from Lloyds, however the payments later started being paid to us by Allied. Continued payments to a defaulted account are clear acknowledgement of the debt. I have enclosed a copy of our transaction list for your review.
XXXXX is an Appointed Representative of XXXXX which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority with firm reference number XXXXX.

Conclusion

In light of the above I believe you're responsible for the account.
Whilst you're making payments, which we appreciate, these payments are being made to Allied who no longer hold the account. Please can you contact our Customer Operations Department on XXXXX to arrange a repayment plan. I want to assure you that we are keen to work with you to resolve this matter and we will only accept payments that are affordable for you. We may even be able to offer a discounted settlement on your balance.

I will hold the account for 21 days for you to contact our Customer Operations Department. If we do not hear from you within the 21 days, we will have to return this account to our collections process.
I hope this resolves your dispute; however, if you wish to discuss my letter further, please do not hesitate to contact me.

END OF COPY OF THE LETTER:


The agreement they sent is in my CURRENT address and not the address where the agreement would of ever been taken out. I have had no dealings with Lloyds in 8 years and have moved far away from where any agreement would of been made.


Thanks for reading and I would really appreciate any thoughts you have on this matter.

It's clearly a cheeky 'reconstructed agreement'. If it was taken out before the first week in April 2007, they have to provide an original copy of the agreement, after that date they can reconstruct the agreement. Did they tell you it had been reconstructed?

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/hand...ate=2016-03-07

I'd write back quoting the FCA, where they state firms must be up front and tell people if the agreement has been 'reconstructed' and if they haven't they are in breach of FCA Guidelines.

Did you send a CCA request?

Send them a SAR request - https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

[elefant man]

It's clearly a cheeky 'reconstructed agreement'. If it was taken out before the first week in April 2007, they have to provide an original copy of the agreement, after that date they can reconstruct the agreement. Did they tell you it had been reconstructed?

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/hand...ate=2016-03-07

I'd write back quoting the FCA, where they state firms must be up front and tell people if the agreement has been 'reconstructed' and if they haven't they are in breach of FCA Guidelines.

Did you send a CCA request?

Send them a SAR request - https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

Thanks for the reply echat11.

The original agreement was taken out on the 17 September 2007.

The letter from my first post was the reply in full from my CCA request.

I cannot see anywhere where they state it has been 'reconstructed'.

1. (2)
   
   The firm can reconstitute a copy. It can do this by re-populating a template of the relevant agreement form with the details of the specific agreement taken from its records. If the firm does provide a reconstituted copy, it should explain that that is what it has done, to avoid misleading the customer that this is a contemporaneous copy.

It does indeed look like they are in breach of the FCA guidelines.

That must be why the address is my current address and not the address where the agreement would of been taken out. They don't seem to know where I was living then either as all of the addresses they have provided are after the agreement would of been taken out.

Any advice on what to do with the lack of clarity on it being a reconstituted copy?

I will look into the SAR I much appreciate the time you have taken and advice.

[echat11]

Thanks for the reply echat11.

The original agreement was taken out on the 17 September 2007.

The letter from my first post was the reply in full from my CCA request.

I cannot see anywhere where they state it has been 'reconstructed'.

1. (2)
   
   The firm can reconstitute a copy. It can do this by re-populating a template of the relevant agreement form with the details of the specific agreement taken from its records. If the firm does provide a reconstituted copy, it should explain that that is what it has done, to avoid misleading the customer that this is a contemporaneous copy.

It does indeed look like they are in breach of the FCA guidelines.

That must be why the address is my current address and not the address where the agreement would of been taken out. They don't seem to know where I was living then either as all of the addresses they have provided are after the agreement would of been taken out.

Any advice on what to do with the lack of clarity on it being a reconstituted copy?

I will look into the SAR I much appreciate the time you have taken and advice.

In offering a 'discount' they've pretty much confirmed it's 'unenforceable', you could send the following letter under the heading (read it carefully to make sure it apply's to you, remove 'we haven't received a response' bit) - I haven’t had the information I requested and consider the debt unenforceable

https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info...e-letters.aspx

See what their response is, also there is no point in making payments as they haven't provided a compliant agreement.

[elefant man]

In offering a 'discount' they've pretty much confirmed it's 'unenforceable', you could send the following letter under the heading (read it carefully to make sure it apply's to you, remove 'we haven't received a response' bit) - I haven’t had the information I requested and consider the debt unenforceable

https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info...e-letters.aspx

See what their response is, also there is no point in making payments as they haven't provided a compliant agreement.

Thanks your help was much appreciated. I will look into this.

[elefant man]

Ok so I sent a letter asking for clarification on the reconstituted agreement.

The basic reply is below.

Reply Start:

Please note the agreement was a reconstituted copy of your original credit agreement, which Lloyds provided as evidence of the information, which was contained within your credit agreement at the time you entered into it. It is clear from this document that you were provided with all the general terms of your agreement at this time.

Please be advised that we do not hold a copy of the original on file, and subsequently the reconstituted copy that was provided complies with the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

Please note that we will not enter into any further correspondence regarding issues we have already addressed.

I will hold the account open for a further 21 days for you to contact our Customer Operations Department. If we do not hear from you within 21 days, we will have to return this account to our collections process.

I hope this resolves your dispute; however, if you wish to discuss my letter further, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Reply Finish

I can categorically say that I have never have an agreement with Lloyds at this address I have only lived here 4.5 years. I have moved 5 times since 2007.

I would welcome any thoughts on this.

[echat11]

The agreement is 'unenforceable', they've got your current address on the agreement, (they should have the address when the agreement was taken out), they also haven't provided the Terms and Conditions when the agreement was taken out ('It is clear from this document that you were provided with all the general terms of your agreement at this time').

I would stop all payments until they can comply with your CCA request. Then if they do 'review' the situation. I think they know they can't comply and are 'winging it'.

[elefant man]

Than you once again for your time ECHAT11.

When they provided the reconstituted agreement in my current address they did provide 2 pages of Terms and Conditions marked BANK COPY.

Does this make any difference ?

They said in this letter they did not receive the CCA request I just took it from the reply they had. It seems they just got my prove it letter. I have checked the recorded delivery receipts and the prove it letter has been received but the CCA not, I will take this up with the post office but I will send a CCA request again.

I sent them separate but maybe I should of sent them together but either way I will send again with another postal order for £1 and keep an eye on the tracking.

Thanks for all you help never had anything like this before.

[echat11]

Than you once again for your time ECHAT11.

When they provided the reconstituted agreement in my current address they did provide 2 pages of Terms and Conditions marked BANK COPY.

Does this make any difference ?

They said in this letter they did not receive the CCA request I just took it from the reply they had. It seems they just got my prove it letter. I have checked the recorded delivery receipts and the prove it letter has been received but the CCA not, I will take this up with the post office but I will send a CCA request again.

I sent them separate but maybe I should of sent them together but either way I will send again with another postal order for £1 and keep an eye on the tracking.

Thanks for all you help never had anything like this before.

The agreement is 'unenforceable', they've got your current address on the agreement, which is incorrect, (they should have the address when the agreement was taken out)

The Terms and Conditions usually run into quite a few pages. I don't know what they've sent you. Normally Terms and Conditions has a date at the bottom of the page, something like 07/20 maybe some letters too. You need to identify what they have sent as T & C's. Creditors use all sorts of 'wizardry' to make you believe what they have sent you is 'compliant'.

[elefant man]

Thank you once again.

I have stopped the payment, resent the CCA. I am still waiting on the SAR I sent last week.

Your time is very much appreciated.

[elefant man]

So today I received two letters One from Cabot and one from Lloyds TSB

Cabot Letter

“Mr XXXXXXXXX, an update on your request

We're still processing your request and have contacted the original lender for the relevant information.

Until we're able to provide this information, your account is unenforceable. This means we're not permitted to obtain a County Court Judgment against you.

Whilst we cannot pursue legal action, your balance remains outstanding.

What happens next?

Your CCA request is being handled by a member of our Customer Care Team, they will mail you the requested information once we have received it.

Yours sincerely”


The second letter is from Lloyds TSB copied most of the main letter.

“Lloyds Bank Buy Now, Pay Later Loan account number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Your Buy Now, Pay Later Loan statement

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Here is your statement.
This includes all the transactions from XXXXXX to XXXXXX.
Ways to help manage your loan
Here is a reminder of some of the things you can do to help manage your loan.
Use Internet Banking to keep track of your account

You can check your loan at any time using Internet Banking. If you've not signed up for Internet Banking, you can register at Lloyds website address.

You can also download our free Mobile Banking app to manage your money wherever you are.

Change the date you pay your loan If anything changes such as when you get paid please call us and we'll move your loan payment date.”

Page 2 contains some payment history.

Any thought on what I should do now or what to expect next? I assume Cabot (who I also assume will have a copy of the same letter?) will fabricate a reconstituted agreement from the info albeit in my current address and not the one where it should be.
As usual any thought on the matter would be appreciated.

[echat11]

So today I received two letters One from Cabot and one from Lloyds TSB

Cabot Letter

“Mr XXXXXXXXX, an update on your request

We're still processing your request and have contacted the original lender for the relevant information.

Until we're able to provide this information, your account is unenforceable. This means we're not permitted to obtain a County Court Judgment against you.

Whilst we cannot pursue legal action, your balance remains outstanding.

What happens next?

Your CCA request is being handled by a member of our Customer Care Team, they will mail you the requested information once we have received it.

Yours sincerely”


The second letter is from Lloyds TSB copied most of the main letter.

“Lloyds Bank Buy Now, Pay Later Loan account number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Your Buy Now, Pay Later Loan statement

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Here is your statement.
This includes all the transactions from XXXXXX to XXXXXX.
Ways to help manage your loan
Here is a reminder of some of the things you can do to help manage your loan.
Use Internet Banking to keep track of your account

You can check your loan at any time using Internet Banking. If you've not signed up for Internet Banking, you can register at Lloyds website address.

You can also download our free Mobile Banking app to manage your money wherever you are.

Change the date you pay your loan If anything changes such as when you get paid please call us and we'll move your loan payment date.”

Page 2 contains some payment history.

Any thought on what I should do now or what to expect next? I assume Cabot (who I also assume will have a copy of the same letter?) will fabricate a reconstituted agreement from the info albeit in my current address and not the one where it should be.
As usual any thought on the matter would be appreciated.

Just wait, see what Cabot sends next. What LLoyd's has sent is a statement of account. They need to comply with your CCA request.

[elefant man]

Thank you ECHAT11 I will sit tight.