Abbey - Where's my money?

[calamity jane]

I am furious. For the second time in 7 months, Abbey's system has put a payment through twice leaving our available balance lower than it should be. No amount of persuasion will convince them that I did not order 2 lots of shopping on the same day for theexact same amount. I now have to wait until wed/thur before it miraculously reappears in our account.
I feel a change of account coming on.

[argentarius]

Re: Abbey - Where's my money?

It's very likely not to be Abbey's fault. Why do you assume that it is?

Far more likely, the retailer has posted a batch of transactions twice. In which case, Abbey need to wait for the retailer to notice their mistake and reverse one of the batches.

Changing account isn't going to sort this out for you, if it wasn't Abbey's mistake in the first place.

You say it's the second time in 7 months. Was the same retailer involved both times?

[calamity jane]

Re: Abbey - Where's my money?

It's very likely not to be Abbey's fault. Why do you assume that it is?

Because it's happened before - both denied responsibility

Far more likely, the retailer has posted a batch of transactions twice. In which case, Abbey need to wait for the retailer to notice their mistake and reverse one of the batches.

Not likely as this was one where I had to sign rather than use pin no. I've already phoned retailer, they've confirmed one payment only debited.

Changing account isn't going to sort this out for you, if it wasn't Abbey's mistake in the first place.

This was an heat of the moment statement, I'm not actually going to change my account just set up an additional basic account with another bank so I can get money out through the post office and rearrange direct debit/standing orders

You say it's the second time in 7 months. Was the same retailer involved both times?

No different retailers.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Abbey - Where's my money?

Argentarius, the explanation of a "ghost transaction" is too complicated. You are right and the bank is not at fault.
This may be long winded(maybe a contradiction when I said argentarius was being too complicated).
There are 3 parties to the transaction,
RETAILER(the shop) BANK(they give the code that means the shop can get the money) and RETAILER MERCHANT(they give the codes---most of it is automated so there is little activity unless there is a security check on the card)

It means that the retailer or its machine has through the merchant asked for the money twice. The bank gave the authorisation code twice as it was asked to do. The funds are then set aside but the merchant has 3 working days to accept the code or the transaction effectively disappears(like a ghost).
The Bank will have both codes(if you ask them nicely and speak to someone who knows what they are doing they will be able to get you both of them). There will be just one transaction that will go through and the timescale given to you, is fairly standard imho. It is frustrating and it is a pain and I hope this post has made it clearer to you.
If you had made more than 1 transaction on the day and that they had ALL been duplicated then I would be inclined to think that the bank is at fault for having processed the transactions twice at different locations.

Hope it helps.

[argentarius]

Re: Abbey - Where's my money?

Ah, if calamity jane had explained the initial problem a bit more clearly I would have understood better what is going on.

So, what's happened is that the funds have been reserved twice, but the transaction has only actually been processed once. The "earmark" won't be released until it's lapsed, unless the retailer does something to release it. And that's not likely to happen.

Just because "both deny responsibility" doesn't mean it's the bank's fault. Banks don't earmark money unless they are asked to do so.

Thanks, natweststaffmember, for the extra comments.

[theGobbyOne]

Re: Abbey - Where's my money?

mmmmmmmmmm, could it be a simple mistake????

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Abbey - Where's my money?

She did explain it very clearly. You spotted the weeds and I spotted the flowers. so here is the bits I got. I am an argumentative sod, btw.

"Abbey's system has put a payment through twice leaving our available balance lower than it should be. No amount of persuasion will convince them that I did not order 2 lots of shopping on the same day for theexact same amount."

My mind said "GHOST! GHOST! GHOST!" before I read what you had written. I agonised over posting something but you got too technical on CJ.
Batch processing means diddly squat to most people.

A lesson I learnt early on bank charges forums is that if you are a bank worker or have worked in a bank, you have to think, what can I do to make this person understand what has happened? What will resolve it? How long?
I think you just got the fire parting on post 3 from CJ.
CJ, argentarius is ok but is a young 'un on forums.
I feel ancient now, so off to get the slippers and pipe and have a lie down!

[calamity jane]

Re: Abbey - Where's my money?

Panic and rant over. Money back in account.

Argentarius -I realise I was wrong to blame the bank but it's very frustrating when you don't have any extra money in your account to allow for "ghost transactions". In fact the first time, I had a transaction refused because the "ghost transaction" registered first meaning that there wasn't enough money in the account for the actual transaction. Very embarrassing to say the least.

Natweststaffmember- great explanation Know any good ghost busters?

[argentarius]

Re: Abbey - Where's my money?

Thanks nwsm and CJ for your comments.

There can be a bit of a tendency on LB (and other forums to be honest) to assume that banks are guilty of every possible transgression. There are many technical reasons why things can go wrong which affect people's bank accounts, and some of those are caused by the third parties involved in the process rather than the bank. (And some, of course, are caused by the banks messing up).

I agree, CJ, that this "earmarking" or "ghost transaction" situation is pretty annoying and hopeless for people who are right up against their credit limit/overdraft/available funds. It happens far more than most people realise, though, because the merchants processing the transactions don't process them properly leading to both the earmarking and the actual transaction being on your account. Hotels are particularly bad in this regard, from what I've read.

Interestingly (or maybe not!) I stayed in a hotel last weekend and the counter clerk was very explicit when she closed out our pre-authorisation that this was exactly what she was doing. Others are not so fastidious and process the second transaction as a separate transaction, leaving the pre-auth to lapse in accordance with normal timescales and leaving the customer short of funds meanwhile.

A bit of "googling" on the subject reveals that some companies are advised by their payment operators not to use pre-authorisation properly, which doesn't help its reputation. Here: http://www.fastcart.co.uk/pre-authorisation.html it says

If a customer orders goods that you do not have in stock, you can "cancel" the transaction without incurring transaction fees. You don't actually have to cancel transactions, just do not complete them in your Customer Management System.

which is rubbish advice as it leaves the funds earmarked. I can imagine a customer who's ordered a TV online, for example, being pretty upset that they can't get it from the original supplier (because they are out of stock) nor from another supplier (because the original supplier earmarked the funds and didn't release them on realising they were out of stock).

But then again, this article: http://archive.thisisdorset.net/2007/9/29/129645.html suggested that Esso were having pre-authorisation problems where it was the card operator incorrectly keeping funds earmarked.

[fuzzybrain]

Re: Abbey - Where's my money?

I have this sort of thing with Abbey alot. if I use my card serveral time in one day, sometimes I get this problem. Abbey have admitted it is a computer error and check the authorisation codes and release the monies that should not be held into my account. It means I have to keep a very regular eye on my accout, but worth it in the long run.