Tempty V Natwest

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

FOS will be about as efective as a fart in a sandstorm at the moment. They are not dealing with bank charges cases at all until after the OFT case.

Tempty, I am so sorry for you. All that work kicked into touch by what seems like a great deal of BS. Stayed to protect you? Hmmm. As if the test case is a)going to go in the bank's favour and, b)it'll all be done and dusted in 3 months. Yeah, right.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

Hi guy's I'm so sorry I could not update you all earlier... my 30 min hearing turned into a 2 hour battle... which almost made me late for work!! (just to top of a perfect day ......not)

Well i tried my best..... even thought i had it at one point...... but the judge decided to fall for the cobblers bull****e.... choosing to believe that waiting for the outcome of the test case in 3 months would be in my best interest, rather then risk losing and having to pay cost's etc and end up with nothing.

Cobblers fought the stay by saying that i had changed the reason I was claiming.... by adding the tax credits act in.... when i filed the amendment via the N244 i was told (by the court that was all i had to do) i listed the reason for the change as tax credits etc. Apparently that was not enough (nice time to let me know) and i should have submitted an amended POC !!! I have been allowed to submit this in the future with no time limit as the judge did not see that as a reason to strike out my claim.... she said natwest had known from the start that this was part of my reason for claiming my charges back and could not now be surprised that it had come up in court.

she agreed that penalty charges claims should remain stayed but explained the reason she had granted the overturn of the stay was due to part of my claim being tax credits. she said that if she agreed to carry on with the case she would have to consider all of my claim.. not just the tax credits taken.... and if she finds for me with the tax credits she could find against me with penalties and i would still get nothing!!!.

cobblers then said even if i won the charges and they won the oft case ...they would claim any money that they had paid out to me back!!!.... judge said they could do that!!.... yeah I'll say that again...coz it blew me away..... judge said that was entirley possible.... therefore to protect me.... she would agree with the bank that waiting for the test case was indeed in my best interest...FFS


ps
way to fecking angry right now to operate the scanner.... so I'll post the skeleton argument Cobblers passed to me just 10 mins before the hearing tomorrow!!!



Thanks to all who have supported me.... felling understandably deflated right now.... but i'm not giving up now...... gotta be more i can do yet...... just gotta get more determined.... press were great btw...

really ****ed Cobblers bloke off .... poor lamb had to make a call to see if he was allowed to object ... bank said yes..... court said NO LMAO one small victory i suppose

Hi Tempty,

Sorry to read it didn't go your way. Well done for getting in there and giving it your best though. Sometimes things are decided before you enter a court room and this read like one of those times.

Don't give up the fight mate. See it as a breather and time to fine tune. :-)

Tanz

[Tempty]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

Well i hate to say it but i think my claim is pretty much over now, the FOS said they will still consider cases of those currently in hardship and as my hubby finally has a job... my benefits will now stop. Therefore I am no longer classed as a hardship case!! The fact that I have the loan has taken the account out of the red too..... never mind the fact I'm now in effect paying the charges TWICE.... with interest!!....they're not interested.

So it really does look like I'm beat Gonna have to wait like the rest now for the outcome of the OFT

[enaid]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

Ah well Tempty no one can ever say you didn't give your best on this and gave a few people a little glimmer of hope too.
You are on the up now, it's nearly xmas you have a lovely family to help you enjoy it.
We know you will be back when the time comes, Nastywest have not seen or heard the last of you. Enaid x

[Tempty]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

Nope nastywest have not heard the last from me..... I'll be here....waiting in the wings for my time to come again

meanwhile hubby and i are going to enjoy xmas.... and will sleep better knowing the bills will be paid with money to spare..... (first time in a very long time) We will concentrate on pulling ourselfs out of the financial hole we are in. And if the OFT decide we are entitled to our money back we'll blow the lot on a family holiday me thinks.... instead of repaying debts!

[archer_66]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

thats right tempty youve done fantastic! i think you and your family will have a great xmastime now!!
forget natwest now until the court case...just flipping enjoy urself!

[Amethyst]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

http://www.legalbeagles.info/KITTY33 v NATWEST

Kitty - made you your own thread hunny - click on that link

[bankrupt]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

Well done Claire. Am I right in thinking that the High Court ordered the County Court in Newton Abbot to remove the stay. If so I hope that details of this can be published on the web site so that I can ask The Blackpool County Court to follow suit in the 12 cases stayed that I have. I am a pensioner on Income Support and Housing Benefit and have lots of unpaid bills to settle.
Regards
Bankrupt

[Amethyst]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

Hi bankrupt - the court did overturn the stay initially, but the bank appealled and had it put back on again

You have 12 stayed claims ? blimey you are busy. We are doing some work with hardship cases at the moment so if you start your own thread up with details of your claims and your situation we can try and help you out a bit.

Ame
xxx

[Tempty]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

Time to update this thread it's been a while LOL

ok when I left off last I had managed to get my stay overturned based on hardship and benefits being removed from the account, only to have it re applied in a hearing at county court. The stay was reapplied as I had been forced into taking a loan from the bank to cover the "debt" owed to them. The bank then convinced the court that i was not a hardship case and that it believed it had met it's obligation to me under the banking code.

well that's the short version anyway

However with the FSA's new definition of hardship it's very obvious mine was a case of hardship. Everything came to a head in April last year, Hubby had broken his ankle and subsequently lost his job and I was also currently out of work. I had just £498 in benefit go into the account and Natwest took £704 (the day it went in) I contacted the bank and informed them i was in the process of filing at court for charges, they put a artificial overdraft limit on the account for 1 month that left me with just under £200 to live on, assuring me that the claim would be sorted out by that time (yeah right) 1 month on they removed the overdraft and again took all my child benefit paid into the account.
I contacted them again and was given no other option but to accept a loan for £1400 covering the "debt to bank" and stopping them from taking the rest of my benefits due in the next day.

Now for my dilemma it's very obvious that my case was hardship then ..... the new FSA definition supports that!!
However ... since having the loan I have managed to keep paying it ... have not had any further charges to the account, both hubby and I are working and have managed to pull ourselves out of the black hole we were in, my account looks healthy and in the black ... albeit i'm still paying the loan and it's ridiculous amount of interest.

After hearing about others that had contacted their banks and thanks to Ame's harassment I did pluck up the courage to ring Natwests legal dept (group litigation dept 02077144447). After being passed around a bit I finally spoke to someone in the group about my case. I gave him my case number and explained part of it in brief, then mentioned the FSA's new ruling on hardship and that I believed i had been a clear cut case of hardship all along, I told him I had heard of other cases being made settlement offers and wanted to know what his stance was on my case. He told me he could not make a judgment on it over the phone but that such offers had been made to customers of RBS (doh yeah i know that) I was advised to put it in writing and send it directly to the litigation dept

Group Litigation
2nd floor
1 Prince's Street
London
EC2R 8PB


Trouble is my head is spinning ...... i keep trying to write something ... then delete it... i'm not in hardship now ... so will they even consider it anyway!!
gonna give it a break for a bit ... go wash the bike or something lol then come back to it and try to get something written down

any suggestions while i'm gone ... things i should/should not mention etc. very welcome

[WendyB]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

Hi Tempts

my head is not exactly working either, but I've given it a go, you'll have to trun it into a proper letter (or someone will).

I think you should try and stay away from the fact that you're not in hardship now. Concentrate on the facts as they were then, but in relation to the new FSA definition, something along the lines of

2. In making an assessment of financial difficulty the firm will take into account:

a. evidence of changes in lifestyle, including loss of employment; disability; serious illness; imprisonment; relationship breakdown; death of a partner; starting a lower paid job; parental/carer leave; and starting full-time education;
well hubby losing job and you being out of work counts here

b. evidence of the following events:

i. items repeatedly being returned unpaid due to lack of available funds;
£704 in one day in charges etc should support this, had xxx amount to live on, took over £500 in charges in one week, (let alone one year!!), had to refinance by way of a loan etc

this is the best I can do at the minute, but its a start

[Tempty]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

yup was thinking along those lines myself, using lines like "i believe my case meets the definition of hardship" as opposed to met etc lol
continued charging in the form of loan repayments etc etc.

I may even use the FSA report as you have done.
hopefully it'll work anyway

[WendyB]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

TBH I nicked it from Ladidi's thread, not having had much to do with hardship cases myself. I was one of the lucky ones remember, received my offer letter on 18th July, a week before the OFT case etc.

[Amethyst]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

oi !

and thanks to Ame's harassment

I prefer to call it gentle persuassion

I just spent 2 hours putting together two kids bicycles which were meant to be manafacturer assembled (yep they did the welding) and have a stonking headache from hanging upside down and groves in my hand from stupid instrument of torture professing to be a spanner....

(random just felt like telling you)

okay....stop being so defeatist !!!! You have worked flipping hard to get your self out of a hole and you are doing fantastically.

BUT you are still tied into this ridiculous loan which was forced on you pretty much by blackmail to enable you to eat while the bank sucked every penny off you in charges. So we are going to have another bash at it so there. (thats gentle persuassion btw)


Okay I think in your case listing things under the new waiver definitions wont help your case......

so an idea okay


Further to a conversation I had with your colleague today regarding the revised waiver terms for cases of financial difficulty I look forward to hearing from you regarding the reconsideration of my claim for the refund of unfair transaction charges.

You will in no doubt be aware from my file that I was left in a position of considerable hardship by your banks refusal to treat me, or my family, with any sympathy following an accident which left my partner unable to work for an extended period.

My sole income at this time was XXXXXXXXXXXxx and XXXXXXXXXXXXx benefits which totalled £XXXXX a week. On one occassion you found it in your hearts to remove £704 of charges from my account in one day ( please see my attached schedule for details of all amounts taken from my account), and on another occassion took over £500 in a week.

This forced me into such a situation I was unable to provide basic living requirements to my family and on discussing my situation with your ''advisors'' was informed the only way that I could stop you taking my benefits due in the following day was to agree to a loan of £XXXXX, which with no viable alternative seemingly available to me, I agreed to and remain in repayment of at a rate of £XXXX per month which includes £XXX interest on that loan.

Considering I had previously complained to the bank and taken a claim to the courts (not sure of the order) this treatment of me, whilst in obvious financial harship, is a blatant disregard of the banking code, and I believe irresponsible lending purely designed to further increase your profits.


(hmmmmm maybe a bit strong lol)


Will have a ponder and a coffeee.....

[WendyB]

Re: Tempty V Natwest

oi !

I prefer to call it gentle persuassion

BUT you are still tied into this ridiculous loan which was forced on you pretty much by blackmail to enable you to eat while the bank sucked every penny off you in charges. So we are going to have another bash at it so there. (thats gentle persuassion btw) Tell it like it is Ame

(hmmmmm maybe a bit strong lol) just a tad! lol. I get the feeling that if we send really stroppy letters they deliberately don't do anything to help cos it's naffed them off.

I have the feeeling the bikes have put you in a seriously sh!te mood Ame. Have another coffee


Will have a ponder and a coffeee.....

Am randomly typing this bit cos it wouldn't let me post unless i did some more typping. So there.....