Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

[AD2400]

I've been reading other posts here that mentioned about similar topic but I need help with my case as it is a little different and I have no idea on how I can approach this to have this default removed if possible.

The story is I got a credit card as a naive student with NatWest in May 1997. Without means to pay it back coupled with ever increasing credit limit(started at £1000 and increased to £10000) got me into serious debt. After I started working and married, both me and my wife(ex) got a loan and other credit card to pay for the existing debt and it snowballed into something even worse. In Dec 2005 things got too much and I couldn't keep up with the payment of all the debts (Credit, Loans), and got advise from debt management company CCCS (now Step Change). After going through very detailed minimal budget (only food) we started to make a fixed amount of around £800 repayment through CCCS in Feb 2006. By this time I received so many default notices I lost track (over 8 Credit cards and 2 loans between us in the sum of around £30000). During this time there were a lot of charges added to the debts which I never tracked.

For many years I couldn't even get a contract phone let alone any financial products. Nevertheless we continued to make repayments of around £800 per months. That is until the continued strain of the debts affected my marriage and in Nov 2012 my wife and I got separated not so amicably. As the repayments were made in both of our names (same CCCS account) and the agreements with my wife was that she will continue to make half of the repayments until we can separate the individual debts held under respective names. She didn't make any payments but the repayments continued to come out of my account for a several months.
Then I was taken ill and was hospitalised in Dec 2012. I had my first operation in Jan 2013 but that didn't solve the issue. I then had to wait 2 months for the wound to heal completely before they could attempt 2nd operation. 2nd operation in March still didn't have desired effect and I had to wait further 2 months to have 3rd operation in June 2013. at the same time I had to resign from my job (pressured to resign, unrelated to illness) in March 2013 and having no income (no unemployment benefit as I resigned) I relied on my parents to support I stopped direct debit (which I was paying solely as my ex-wife by this point were working in Kuwait and not in correspondant). After getting endless letters and phone calls from debt collection agency (Moorcroft) I agreed to pay Moorcroft £50 per month until Oct 2018 when the debt will be repaid in full. At this point I don't believe I received any letter from Natwest regarding the account as I moved out when I separated from my wife and got taken ill and didn't update my address. In any case, a lot has happened and I wasn't in a right state of mind.

Fast forward 2 more years to present day. I am starting to rebuild my life and in a position to do what I thought unimaginable, and get mortgage with my new wife and a cutest 4 months old son with government help to buy with 5% deposit and 20% equity for government. I get Agreement in Principle from Halifax online which didn't ask for and past credit history. I make an offer on a new build paid £1500 deposit. Now the application has been rejected and when I checked my credit file I can see this shiny new default recorded against me 04/11/2013. The credit file shows default amount of £2789 and current balance of £1989.

So finally to my question. I need this default removed to get mortgage as I stand to lose £1500 non refundable deposit as Halifax took so long to make decision I went ahead and ordered flooring and kitchen units (non-refundable, I foolishly thought AIP means mortgage approved). I am thinking of a few way to approach this. I am willing a to pay the outstanding balance in full (no offer of 50%) in any case even if they move the default to correct date of 2006 as I do believe I should pay what I owe. But if they are not able to removed default then I see no reason to pay in full early as opposed to paying £50 per month for 3 more years.

1. I do believe the default was recorded back in 2006 and should not appear on my credit report now in 2015. Problem for me is that I do not have any paper record of the default and cannot prove this. I have spoken to a collection department and told them that the date is wrong and they told me it will take them minimum 2 week to find record as it is archived and the person on the phone said she need to check what was the default procedure was back in 2006 to check if it should have been issued or not. I am not sure what will happen if they simply say 2013 default is correct according to their record as I cannot prove my side of story. I did mention that I am happy to pay the amount if they correct the date or remove default on the phone.
2. If they stand firm on the date will it be possible to offer to pay outstanding amount in full on the condition that they remove default?

I even looked at some thread about asking for signed credit agreement and getting this debt removed but I heard this is not really possible any more after a certain ruling in the court.

I really hoped to put all the past mistakes behind me and as I have been approved for credit card from Nationwide 6 months ago and thought I could rebuild my life again. Please help me how I can write letter to have best chance if they say the default date is correct. As much detail as possible to have best chance. Thank you in advance any help on this.

[nemesis45]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

Hi Welcome to LB,
When you say you believe the default was recorded in 2006 did you receive default notice then, did you comply with the notice? Resulting in the default being recorded on credit files.
Was this account with Step Change? Normally debts are defaulted before going into a debt management plan.
Or was the account subject to an " arrangement to Pay " with the original creditor?
Can you tell what the account was for. Credit card/ Loan/ current account/OD?
Paying off a defaulted debt will not get the default removed, the Information Commissioners Office regulates the way accounts are reported to credit reference agency files, and they require the files to be up to date and accurate, once a default is recorded it stays on file for 6 years from the default date after which it is removed paid or not. It is very difficult to get a default removed unless one can prove the data is wrong.

The original credit agreement is no longer relevant as the judgement totally supercedes it.
Is it the collections department of the creditor you are talking to?

nem

[AD2400]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

Hi Welcome to LB,
When you say you believe the default was recorded in 2006 did you receive default notice then, did you comply with the notice? Resulting in the default being recorded on credit files.
Was this account with Step Change? Normally debts are defaulted before going into a debt management plan.
Or was the account subject to an " arrangement to Pay " with the original creditor?
Can you tell what the account was for. Credit card/ Loan/ current account/OD?
Paying off a defaulted debt will not get the default removed, the Information Commissioners Office regulates the way accounts are reported to credit reference agency files, and they require the files to be up to date and accurate, once a default is recorded it stays on file for 6 years from the default date after which it is removed paid or not. It is very difficult to get a default removed unless one can prove the data is wrong.

The original credit agreement is no longer relevant as the judgement totally supercedes it.
Is it the collections department of the creditor you are talking to?

nem

Thank you for your reply. It is NatWest Credit Card and yes I have so far only spoken to someone at the NatWest collections department (number was given to me by DCA Moorcroft).
Regarding Default, although I am quite sure all accounts were defaulted as I didn't make any payment for a several months before I finally got my head out of sand and contacted Debt Management company (CCCS). I remember receiving a lot of default notices and I do remember seeing Natwest on my credit report from Experian many years ago. I did have Loan, Credit Card and Overdraft also with NatWest as well but I am pretty sure all accounts were defaulted although I can't be 100% certain I see no other way they would have processed my accounts other than default it. I have signed up for Experian, Equifax and Call Credit but they are showing default, but strangely enough Experian is not showing the default. I tried to see if there's old report as I last used experian was maybe 4 years ago but no record of my previous report I could find.

All the paper works were left behind when I moved out when I separated and I haven't had any contact with my ex-wife other than through solicitors to finalise divorce and it is very unlikely she kept any of the documents. I am wondering if they come back to me saying the new(?) default notice is correct (I didn't get the notice) if there's anything I can do to challenge this.
If this is not possible as I have seen some post saying Natwest or collection agency issuing default with wrong dates and I was hoping if there will be anyways to persuade NatWest given exceptional circumstances. I've been also reading some stories of successful removal of defaults on some post and trying to hold on to anything remotely possible to make this possible for me also. And it is my understanding that the data can be wrong?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

The original credit agreement is no longer relevant as the judgement totally supercedes it.
Is it the collections department of the creditor you are talking to?

What judgment? I don't think the OP has mentioned a CCJ, :confused2: if there was one, then the original default date in 2006 would be immaterial and the six years would start to run from the date of the judgment.

I suspect the OP may be referring to Carey or something like that, i.e. case law rather than a CCJ, in the statement below. Maybe they'll be able to clarify. If that's the case, it is still possible to send a request for a copy of your agreement, even though it doesn't necessarily have to be a photocopy of the agreement with your signature. The ruling referred to the legality of providing a reconstruction, it didn't remove the duty to response to a CCA request.

Having said that, a CCA request would be useful to assess the enforceability of the accounts but would have no bearing on default dates or the data reported to the CRAS.

I even looked at some thread about asking for signed credit agreement and getting this debt removed but I heard this is not really possible any more after a certain ruling in the court.

I really hoped to put all the past mistakes behind me and as I have been approved for credit card from Nationwide 6 months ago and thought I could rebuild my life again. Please help me how I can write letter to have best chance if they say the default date is correct. As much detail as possible to have best chance. Thank you in advance any help on this.

[AD2400]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

What judgment? I don't think the OP has mentioned a CCJ, :confused2: if there was one, then the original default date in 2006 would be immaterial and the six years would start to run from the date of the judgment.

I suspect the OP may be referring to Carey or something like that, i.e. case law rather than a CCJ, in the statement below. Maybe they'll be able to clarify. If that's the case, it is still possible to send a request for a copy of your agreement, even though it doesn't necessarily have to be a photocopy of the agreement with your signature. The ruling referred to the legality of providing a reconstruction, it didn't remove the duty to response to a CCA request.

Having said that, a CCA request would be useful to assess the enforceability of the accounts but would have no bearing on default dates or the data reported to the CRAS.

I don't have any CCJ I was referring to a court case where creditors now doesn't have to provide an original signed copy of credit agreement. I heard if they didn't produce the document the debt gets unenforceable which I heard is no longer the case. Would it have any effect on my case if I make CCA request? I heard they now simply reply we don't have it and we don't have to provide you with one reply.

Also regarding the default notice I definitely did not receive them but obviously it was my fault for not updating my address.

[AD2400]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

Just REceived this email from Equifax after putting in dispute on the date of the Default.

Dear AD2400,
Thank you for getting in touch.



Natwest has investigated your query and have told Equifax that the account information is correct and should remain unchanged. Please contact their Agency Management team for further information and assistance with this query.

This information is supplied by the company and we can't change it without their permission. You should get in touch with the company directly if you need more information.
Phone: 0800 161 5920
The note that we added, stating that your information was in dispute will be removed within 24 hours.



You’ll find more information about your credit report at: www.equifax.co.uk/help. If you have a question, you should find the answer in our FAQ section. If not, you can send us an online query, and attach documents to it – no need to worry about them getting lost or delayed in the post.



I hope you find this useful. If there’s anything else we can do for you, please let us know.



Kind regards



Equifax Customer Services

Is this end of the line?

[Debt Camel]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

Let's focus on the most important thing for you - getting the mortgage you want.

CCA requests are pretty much irrelevant to this. If Natwest can't supply the doumentation they may not be able to enforce the debt but that doesn't mean they will backdate the default. I'm not saying you shouldn't go down the CCA route, but it isn't a solution to your mortgage problem.

Whether or not NatWest defaulted your account back in 2006 it seems clear from what you have said that they SHOULD have. See this article on "what should the default date for a debt be?" http://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/. I suggest you write them a letter of complaint, a variation on the one given in that post as you could add the sentence "From my memory (I no longer have the old paperwork) I thought you had defaulted the account back in 2006. If you did not, then you should have done this as I missed payments completely for several months and after that only made low monthly payments."

So to be clear, you are not asking them to remove the default, you are asking them to correct the default date - which will have the effect of deleting the debt from your credit file.

In addition, you also need to settle the debt. Debts that aren't on your credit file still matter for mortgages.

[nemesis45]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

Thank you for your reply. It is NatWest Credit Card and yes I have so far only spoken to someone at the NatWest collections department (number was given to me by DCA Moorcroft).
Regarding Default, although I am quite sure all accounts were defaulted as I didn't make any payment for a several months before I finally got my head out of sand and contacted Debt Management company (CCCS). I remember receiving a lot of default notices and I do remember seeing Natwest on my credit report from Experian many years ago. I did have Loan, Credit Card and Overdraft also with NatWest as well but I am pretty sure all accounts were defaulted although I can't be 100% certain I see no other way they would have processed my accounts other than default it. I have signed up for Experian, Equifax and Call Credit but they are showing default, but strangely enough Experian is not showing the default. I tried to see if there's old report as I last used experian was maybe 4 years ago but no record of my previous report I could find.

All the paper works were left behind when I moved out when I separated and I haven't had any contact with my ex-wife other than through solicitors to finalise divorce and it is very unlikely she kept any of the documents. I am wondering if they come back to me saying the new(?) default notice is correct (I didn't get the notice) if there's anything I can do to challenge this.
If this is not possible as I have seen some post saying Natwest or collection agency issuing default with wrong dates and I was hoping if there will be anyways to persuade NatWest given exceptional circumstances. I've been also reading some stories of successful removal of defaults on some post and trying to hold on to anything remotely possible to make this possible for me also. And it is my understanding that the data can be wrong?

Rather than relying on any more phone calls why not write a formal complaint to NatWest's Data Controller, used this route for my daughter when she was left with ex husbands debts he had incurred in her name, had a very quick and reasonable response about 3 years ago.

nem

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

I don't have any CCJ I was referring to a court case where creditors now doesn't have to provide an original signed copy of credit agreement. I heard if they didn't produce the document the debt gets unenforceable which I heard is no longer the case. Would it have any effect on my case if I make CCA request? I heard they now simply reply we don't have it and we don't have to provide you with one reply.

I don't know where you hear that because that simply isn't the case, ss.77-79 of the CCA are still very much alive and well. :noidea:

I don't have any CCJ I was referring to a court case where creditors now doesn't have to provide an original signed copy of credit agreement. I heard if they didn't produce the document the debt gets unenforceable which I heard is no longer the case. Would it have any effect on my case if I make CCA request? I heard they now simply reply we don't have it and we don't have to provide you with one reply.

As DC said below and also as per my earlier post, a CCA request has got nothing to do with credit reporting. On McGuffick -v- RBS it was established that recording a default with the CRAs did not constitute enforcement so they are allowed to do so even when the debts are unenforceable. The recent Grace -v- Blackhorse case only relates to accounts that have been ruled irredeemably unenforceable in court, not those where they are simply in default of a CCA request.

CCA requests are pretty much irrelevant to this. If Natwest can't supply the doumentation they may not be able to enforce the debt but that doesn't mean they will backdate the default. I'm not saying you shouldn't go down the CCA route, but it isn't a solution to your mortgage problem.

[AD2400]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

Rather than relying on any more phone calls why not write a formal complaint to NatWest's Data Controller, used this route for my daughter when she was left with ex husbands debts he had incurred in her name, had a very quick and reasonable response about 3 years ago.

nem

Thank you for your suggestion. Did your daughter had default that were removed? How was it resolved? What did you say on the letter to NatWest? Who should I write to?

[AD2400]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

Let's focus on the most important thing for you - getting the mortgage you want.

CCA requests are pretty much irrelevant to this. If Natwest can't supply the doumentation they may not be able to enforce the debt but that doesn't mean they will backdate the default. I'm not saying you shouldn't go down the CCA route, but it isn't a solution to your mortgage problem.

Whether or not NatWest defaulted your account back in 2006 it seems clear from what you have said that they SHOULD have. See this article on "what should the default date for a debt be?" http://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/. I suggest you write them a letter of complaint, a variation on the one given in that post as you could add the sentence "From my memory (I no longer have the old paperwork) I thought you had defaulted the account back in 2006. If you did not, then you should have done this as I missed payments completely for several months and after that only made low monthly payments."

So to be clear, you are not asking them to remove the default, you are asking them to correct the default date - which will have the effect of deleting the debt from your credit file.

In addition, you also need to settle the debt. Debts that aren't on your credit file still matter for mortgages.

Thank you for your reply. I checked the link in your post and it looks promising although it does say "As a general guide, [a default may be recorded] when you are 3 months in arrears, and normally by the time you are 6 months in arrears.
There are exceptions to this which may result in a default being recorded at a later stage, such as secured or long term loans e.g. mortgages, or if the product operates in a more flexible way e.g. current accounts, student loans, home credit.”.
Mine was Credit card so I am wondering if I can use this as an argument and have my default dated to when it should have been recorded? To whom should I write to? Any template or suggestions? Thank you.

Who do I write the letter to? I don't know if I need to complain or just say

[nemesis45]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

Thank you for your suggestion. Did your daughter had default that were removed? How was it resolved? What did you say on the letter to NatWest? Who should I write to?

Yes on the grounds that she was disadvantage by the entry, e.g. Having a late recorded default placed her at a disadvantage compared to others who's defaults are placed properly and have them removed on the 6th anniversary of the default which in her case if the default was recorded 14 months after the DN was issued ( no further DN being issued.)

nem

[Debt Camel]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

Mine was Credit card

Then it's simple & it should follow the "between 3 and 6 months" rule.

It's hard to give a template letter as it just needs to describe the facts of your case - when you stopped making payments, when a DMP was set up, how much they were getting then etc etc Plus I would add that sentence I suggested above saying that you thought it had been defaulted in 2006. Then at the end say what you want them to do - ie backdate the default to 2006.

Its simplest to just send the letter to the normal complaints address ie https://www.natwest.com/global/conta...mplain-js.ashx. Or you can try to work out who the Data Controller is for that part of the NatWest empire https://ico.org.uk/esdwebpages/search

[AD2400]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

I wanted to thank and update everyone here who helped me. After being asked to wait what seemed to be longest two weeks of my life by NatWest on the phone I called them this Wednesday to enquire about my case. The lady who asked me to give her 2 week to find out more misplaced(?) my account detail and couldn't look into it at all but said she will speak to her manager and get outcome by Friday (today). I waited patiently for two more days before calling NatWest around 10am (thought 9am was too early for them). This time I got through to another person who basically said as far as he can see the default date is correct. But this time thanks to the everyone here I was armed with knowledge and told him that I was not disputing the default itself, but the date of the default. Also that regardless of what they have on their record my account should have been defaulted in 2006 and not 2013. I also told them that I should not be disadvantaged unnecessarily and no longer than I should be and that this default is putting me in a very bad position unfairly. He said they will get back to me this afternoon and the lady who dealt with my case called around 4pm to say that they agree that the default should have been recorded in 2006 and therefore they will remove the default from my record without any condition. I have told them that I will settle the debt in full on Monday as I was out in the park with my wife and the baby. And I am going to settle the debt in full as I am in a position to be able to.

Special thanks to Debe Camel for the below advice and the link about Default Dates and also to nemesis45 for letting me know about your daughter's case which gave me hope and will to pursue this. And thanks to everyone who pointed me in the right direction.

Now I am trying to get the CRA to update their record so I can finally get mortgage approved (hopefully).

Let's focus on the most important thing for you - getting the mortgage you want.

CCA requests are pretty much irrelevant to this. If Natwest can't supply the doumentation they may not be able to enforce the debt but that doesn't mean they will backdate the default. I'm not saying you shouldn't go down the CCA route, but it isn't a solution to your mortgage problem.

Whether or not NatWest defaulted your account back in 2006 it seems clear from what you have said that they SHOULD have. See this article on "what should the default date for a debt be?" http://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-default-date/. I suggest you write them a letter of complaint, a variation on the one given in that post as you could add the sentence "From my memory (I no longer have the old paperwork) I thought you had defaulted the account back in 2006. If you did not, then you should have done this as I missed payments completely for several months and after that only made low monthly payments."

So to be clear, you are not asking them to remove the default, you are asking them to correct the default date - which will have the effect of deleting the debt from your credit file.

In addition, you also need to settle the debt. Debts that aren't on your credit file still matter for mortgages.

Yes on the grounds that she was disadvantage by the entry, e.g. Having a late recorded default placed her at a disadvantage compared to others who's defaults are placed properly and have them removed on the 6th anniversary of the default which in her case if the default was recorded 14 months after the DN was issued ( no further DN being issued.)

nem

[Debt Camel]

Re: Please Help to remove/correct NatWest Default (Very Long Story)

Glad you have been able to resolve this!