HSBC Default of Ł8k! Really Complex One!! Help Required!

**moonstar1981** · 13th May 2013, 15:26:PM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

BUMP

**The Debt Star** · 13th May 2013, 15:44:PM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

Nightmare.

I have every sympathy, HSBC loaded a default onto my credit files (CRFs) and after months and months of complaining it was eventually taken off when the FOS deemed it unfair.

IMO this is the way for you to go. You need to argue the Default on your CRFs is unfair and take it to the FOS after you have exhausted HSBC's internal complaints procedure.

Really the Defaulted status of your accoutn dates back to 2005 and not 2009 (meaning it should have fallen off your CRFs by now). There is scope I believe in the OFT Guidelines to claim the present Default was unfairly placed when it was as its a consolidation of a prior defaulted debt, whether they filed a formal "Default" with the CRAs in 2005 or not.

That's my view. others may differ. But its worth fighting IMO as you have another couple of years to go on it.

Editing to add that I understand that it doesn't matter if they defaulted you or not at the time, as they should have done that and it's not your fault that they didn't and saved it for the 2009 consolidation.

That debt exists though I guess and you have to consider what, if anything you intend to do about it.

**moonstar1981** · 14th May 2013, 08:43:AM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

Sorry IMO?

I've done a SAR request just to clarify all the information they hold on me and can now pick this up from my local HSBC branch.

I guess I wondered what my options/routes to try and get this default removed from my credit file - Is it possible to do a counter claim on MCOL for the amount there stating? I believe I would win as there is no credit agreement ever been signed or sent to me for this amount?

**moonstar1981** · 15th May 2013, 13:15:PM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

Good afternoon,

After waiting 12 weeks for a SAR I have now finally received this!

After looking into this matter and seeing what information HSBC hold on me there are several failings the bank have done.

The InvestDirect account was open in 2003 but lay dormant.

1. There is no credit agreement at all for any amount in InvestDirect Account or Current Plus Account. Looking at all the documents they've sent I've noted these points....

2. 28th Nov 2008 - Trading Reserve Declined
3. 13th Nov 2008 - Welcome to InvestDirect. Note on FILE says "We have open a settlement Account, which is linked to your HSBC bank current account....You have a personal dealing limit of Ł10,000 meaning that you are able to place purchase orders up to this amount, whilst ensuring sufficient funds are available in your HSBC current Account. "
4. Payments on 14th NOV 2008 of Ł6488.98 and 17th NOV 2008 of Ł1310.30 were transferred from my current account to INVESTDIRECT.

So surely there are two key points here:

1. I never have agreed/signed/seen a credit agreement
2. There own point of "You have a personal dealing limit of Ł10,000, meaning that you are able to place purchase orders up to this amount, whilst ensuring sufficient funds are available in your HSBC current account" - On the 13th November 2008 my current account balance was Ł68.07 OVERDRAWN. Surely this means that they have screwed me over?

Again, I have never been accepted for any form of overdraft with the bank, turned down for numerous loans etc and never had a credit card with them. I have several CCJ's/DEFAULTS/LATE PAYMENTS during this time period and couldn't get accepted for credit anywhere. The current account in 21st NOV 2008 had a closing balance of Ł7907.23 and then they spent a year charging interest etc and closed the account on 30th July 2009 with a closing balance of Ł8912.04.

Could anyone please advise me what my next steps should really be on this matter?

**moonstar1981** · 16th May 2013, 07:40:AM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

BUMP :tung:

**Celestine** · 16th May 2013, 08:35:AM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

If this was deemed an 'overdraft facility' there wont be a credit agreement.

I'm at a loss what to advise, therefore, ensure you have a 'Final response' from HSBC then report the whole situation to FOS.

**wales01man** · 16th May 2013, 08:50:AM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

At first glance it looks like the OP was trying to gamble with the banks money,if 10k goes into an account its either his money or the bank has lent it and after playing for a few weeks he stopped is it the case he wasnt winning the gamble and stopped i may be wrong but this is what it looks like to me?

**moonstar1981** · 16th May 2013, 09:24:AM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

Originally posted by wales01man View Post

At first glance it looks like the OP was trying to gamble with the banks money,if 10k goes into an account its either his money or the bank has lent it and after playing for a few weeks he stopped is it the case he wasnt winning the gamble and stopped i may be wrong but this is what it looks like to me?

On a genuine note with regards to this - I thought I was using InvestDirect as a demo account hence why I began trading without transferring any money into the account. It was only literally the day afterwards when my current account was raided did I realise this. I emailed/called them straight away but I did not get any reply. Like I said, I've never been accepted for any overdraft facilities at the bank/loans etc throughout my whole time of being with them. I was in a financial mess personally.

**moonstar1981** · 16th May 2013, 09:26:AM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

Originally posted by Celestine View Post

If this was deemed an 'overdraft facility' there wont be a credit agreement.

I'm at a loss what to advise, therefore, ensure you have a 'Final response' from HSBC then report the whole situation to FOS.

I don't know what it was deemed as. According to the information I've been given it's classed as a "trading reserve" - What I don't understand is why was I allowed to trade without having the funds to back it up in my current account? Yet the day after on being upgraded to InvestDirect PLUS this facility is instantly removed and you can't trade unless you have funds in your account?!

**Celestine** · 16th May 2013, 09:31:AM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

Leclerc would be useful on this thread. I'll PM him.

**FlamingParrot** · 16th May 2013, 09:34:AM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

Originally posted by moonstar1981 View Post

Basically back in 2005 I had my HSBC

current account and no loans or overdrafts. I wanted to trade some stocks and opened up a shares account to do this with there InvestDirect arm.

I genuinely did not transfer any money into this share account and it had a balance of Ł10,000 which I assumed was a test account, so you can see how it all works and try it out.

After having a play etc over a few weeks I realised I didn't want to carry on and asked them to cancel my InvestDirect account.

I then realised that this was actual money I was playing with

When you are trading stocks and shares, it's always actual money you are playing with! Why would you expect it not to be? Why would a bank run 'test accounts' with Ł10k worth of funds? You opened a share dealing account with a bank, that's not quite the same as a Sky Vegas account where you get a free bonus to play with! Which will only be Ł10 rather than Ł10k! :wof: :wof: The stocks you're trading were real and had to be paid for with real money. HSBC wasn't going to give you Ł10k of their own money for you to buy stocks!

Originally posted by moonstar1981 View Post

after that transfered money from my current account without my knowledge.To the point where I had made a massive loss. I have never agreed or signed to have an account credit and I know that I couldn't even get an overdraft

on my current account as I had other debts at the time. These included at the time 2 CCJ's, several defaults and late payments on all sorts. I'd regular ask HSBC for a small overdraft and I was declined on every application I had ever made. This also applied to HSBC credit cards. This all stemmed from silly days as a young 20 something. After complaining like mad in branch, they said they would sort the matter out for me. In August 2009 they added the balance of debt from the share account to my current account and defaulted my current account. I lost around Ł1700 of my money and they put a defaulted balance of Ł8,841 onto my current account.

Although you wouldn't have signed a conventional credit agreement as such, you should have the T&Cs of the InvestDirect share dealing account. There should be something in there about money being debited from your current account and details about how the share dealing account would be funded. Have you got such terms?

Originally posted by moonstar1981 View Post

I have never had any any loans, overdrafts or cc's with HSBC nor have I ever acknowledged this debt. I never signed or accepted a Ł10,000 invest direct loan!!

You may well have accepted the 'loan' without being aware of it, that's why you need to look at the T&C of the share dealing account. When you got your SAR, did you get all your statements? They should show where the money came from. Presumably you used some of those Ł10k to buy stocks and you made loses on those purchases. Regardless of how he money was put in your account, you used it to trade.

Originally posted by moonstar1981 View Post

I lived in Australia for a few years, and upon returning found thus on my credit file :

Current account
Account opened:September 2003
Account closed/default date: August 2009
Reported to: August 2015
Balance Ł8841

After writing to HSBC in January 2013, about this and stating I don't acknowledge this debt,
they wrote back and said they were looking into the matter and I would receive a reply on 29th January 2013.
They then sent me a letter stating that they have sold my debt to MK Rapid Recoveries and they are no longer dealing with my case. I have since contact MK RR and told them that I am dealing with HSBC direct as this is incorrect.

I have sent them a SAR request and I should have all the details of this finally today. There response to my letter stated that:

On 14/17 November 2008 payments of Ł6488.98 and Ł1310.30 respectively were made to investment direct which took your balance to Ł7907.35 overdrawn. - I didn't make these payments the bank did them!

Presumably the payments were made automatically from your current account.

From the above, it looks like your default is 4 years old so it should be off your file in a couple of years and the debt will be SBd in less than 2 years. Frankly, given the sums involved, I'd be happy just not to be chased for this debt. You only have 2 years to go before the default drops off and it may not even show up on some searches now because sometimes only the last 3 years are searched.

Originally posted by moonstar1981 View Post

The rest of the letter just states they sent pre-demand notice and that my account was closed august 2009. They have then attached 2 letters which they say were sent to me and one which states about Invest Direct Account

START OF LETTER * I note from our records that you requested to upgrade your account from the investdirect service to an investdirect plus account on 12 November. This was complted on that day and a letter of confirmation sent to you on 13 november. I offer my apologies that the letter sent was incorrect and confirmed that we would link this trading account to your bank account. I have now arranged for the correct letter to be issued.

Prior to the upgrading of your account on 12 November, you had already arranged purchases on both 11 and 12 November. These were made under the standard investdirect terms and conditions which details that you must ensure sufficient funds are available on your HSBC current account. Therefore due to this your current account was debited three working days after you had placed the purchase orders, being the settlement date.

With the investdirect plus service no personal dealing limit is offered as we do not debit your HSBC current account, therefore prior to any purchase being made, we will require funding to be received, This can be made by debit card, transfer from an account. Had you arranged for funds to be credited to your investdirect cash account, this would have been utilised rather than your current account"* End of letter

This letter doesn't even have a date on it, they have written it on. I've never even seen it before? My issue is it seems that they've let me trade (which I thought was a test) in investdirect and not linked it to my bank account thus making me liable for trading shares?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any help on what I can do on this. They have never taken/offered to take me to court. I genuinely believe this because I think they know they wouldn't win? I really want to try and get thus removed from my credit file as I'm looking to buy a house in the next year and this is effecting me massively.

Hope someone can offer some advice as I'm really worried now

Thanks

In view of the above, I'd say you've been very lucky not to be pursued for this debt! I just can't see how you could defend on the basis that you'd assumed the Ł10k in your share dealing account was a test! You then performed live stock trades, a clear indication that it wasn't a 'test'. As the default will be off in a couple of years, I'd say it shouldn't be a big deal. If it was me, I'd rather wait a couple of years to buy a house (what's the big rush?) and not stir things up and end up with a CCJ which would be on record for a further 6 years.

**Celestine** · 16th May 2013, 09:38:AM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

I have to utterly agree with FlamingParrot especially here:

In view of the above, I'd say you've been very lucky not to be pursued for this debt! I just can't see how you could defend on the basis that you'd assumed the Ł10k in your share dealing account was a test! You then performed live stock trades, a clear indication that it wasn't a 'test'. As the default will be off in a couple of years, I'd say it shouldn't be a big deal. If it was me, I'd rather wait a couple of years to buy a house (what's the big rush?) and not stir things up and end up with a CCJ which would be on record for a further 6 years.

**moonstar1981** · 16th May 2013, 10:10:AM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

Originally posted by FlamingParrot View Post

When you are trading stocks and shares, it's always actual money you are playing with! Why would you expect it not to be? Why would a bank run 'test accounts' with Ł10k worth of funds? You opened a share dealing account with a bank, that's not quite the same as a Sky Vegas account where you get a free bonus to play with! Which will only be Ł10 rather than Ł10k! :wof: :wof: The stocks you're trading were real and had to be paid for with real money. HSBC wasn't going to give you Ł10k of their own money for you to buy stocks!

[/COLOR]Although you wouldn't have signed a conventional credit agreement as such, you should have the T&Cs of the InvestDirect share dealing account. There should be something in there about money being debited from your current account and details about how the share dealing account would be funded. Have you got such terms?

You may well have accepted the 'loan' without being aware of it, that's why you need to look at the T&C of the share dealing account. When you got your SAR, did you get all your statements? They should show where the money came from. Presumably you used some of those Ł10k to buy stocks and you made loses on those purchases. Regardless of how he money was put in your account, you used it to trade.

Presumably the payments were made automatically from your current account.

From the above, it looks like your default is 4 years old so it should be off your file in a couple of years and the debt will be SBd in less than 2 years. Frankly, given the sums involved, I'd be happy just not to be chased for this debt. You only have 2 years to go before the default drops off and it may not even show up on some searches now because sometimes only the last 3 years are searched.

In view of the above, I'd say you've been very lucky not to be pursued for this debt! I just can't see how you could defend on the basis that you'd assumed the Ł10k in your share dealing account was a test! You then performed live stock trades, a clear indication that it wasn't a 'test'. As the default will be off in a couple of years, I'd say it shouldn't be a big deal. If it was me, I'd rather wait a couple of years to buy a house (what's the big rush?) and not stir things up and end up with a CCJ which would be on record for a further 6 years.

I did not even think it was a live account, I thought it was a Demo account so that you could "try out the system" etc - I had no money in my current account at the time, so I was using HSBC's money when trading follow by it then debiting my current account 3 days later.

No T&C's in the SAR pack. What I'm getting at is that it seems they upgraded my InvestDirect account to plus but waited until after these trades had been made - As what they are saying from there correspondence is that Investdirect account is linked to your current account (under there T&C's) and that you must ensure sufficient funds are available on your HSBC current account - Surely there's a part on the bank to check that I have sufficient funds in my account? Then the day after those trades were made they upgraded the account to InvestDirect Plus and new T&C's created a new cash account and states you will need to credit this account before submitting any purchase orders.

There is no statement for the Investdirect account.

The only statements I have are form my current account and the debits made on the share purchases.

**moonstar1981** · 16th May 2013, 10:13:AM

Re: HSBC Default of Ł8k! Rally Complex One!! Help Required!

Originally posted by Celestine View Post

I have to utterly agree with FlamingParrot especially here:

In view of the above, I'd say you've been very lucky not to be pursued for this debt! I just can't see how you could defend on the basis that you'd assumed the Ł10k in your share dealing account was a test! You then performed live stock trades, a clear indication that it wasn't a 'test'. As the default will be off in a couple of years, I'd say it shouldn't be a big deal. If it was me, I'd rather wait a couple of years to buy a house (what's the big rush?) and not stir things up and end up with a CCJ which would be on record for a further 6 years.

I do agree with you.

However, I believe one of the reasons is that the banks messed up here and made an error hence why I'm trying to rectify the matter. How can they give someone Ł10K limit to play with on shares that doesn't have an overdraft/loans etc and never had that much money in my current account in my life?!

HSBC Default of Ł8k! Really Complex One!! Help Required!

HSBC Default of Ł8k! Really Complex One!! Help Required!

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