hell-v-shabby

[Amethyst]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Well first I would write to the court and ask their defence be struck out for non compliance with directions....then ask for a wasted costs order after this.

If they show up with bundle on the day ask for an adjournment to consider the evidence and ask for costs for the day.

They are just going to request the stay aren't they - so go prepared with your arguments against this. Your claim isnt standard penalty charges is it - its incorrectly taken charges- so theres no reason for it to be stayed. Just have your arguments prepared and you'll be fine.

Had they applied for stay before the bundle due date then it would have cancelled out the deadline for bundles - but they havent so the judge could still strike them out for non compliance.

[hellhasnofury]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Well first I would write to the court and ask their defence be struck out for non compliance with directions....then ask for a wasted costs order after this.

If they show up with bundle on the day ask for an adjournment to consider the evidence and ask for costs for the day.

They are just going to request the stay aren't they - so go prepared with your arguments against this. Your claim isnt standard penalty charges is it - its incorrectly taken charges- so theres no reason for it to be stayed. Just have your arguments prepared and you'll be fine.

Had they applied for stay before the bundle due date then it would have cancelled out the deadline for bundles - but they havent so the judge could still strike them out for non compliance.

Hello Ame:kiss:

Thanks for your rapid response.

I will really need to do some serious swatting up on legislation etc. I know the principles, but not the legal jargon.

How will I word this letter to the Judge for a strike out.

Dear Judge,

I am writing to inform that, at, of this date blha blah, the shabbey have not complied to your instructions dated the blha blah and they have not supplied me with their court bundle, therefore I am requesting that the defence should be sturck out due to non-compliance

I have contact the legal department of shabby on the blah, to try to settle this case by negiation. They have responsed by informing me that they will be applying for a stay of the case, pending the outcome of the OFT test Case.

With great respect I would like to inform the judge that the case was filed against the defendants, due to penalty charges being applied after the abbey set up a unauthorised Direct Debit and taking my Child Tax Credit for their charges.

I would therefore like to apply for costs of preparation of the case and court bundle and expenses for the day in court.

This is only a draft, It just came off the top of my head, so any comments amendments welcome.

[Amethyst]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Dear District Judge xxxxxxxxxx

Hellhasnofury-v- Abbey Bank Plc
Claim No:********

I, the Claimant, refer to the claim as detailed above and specifically the order made by District Judge xxxxxxxx dated xx/xx/2007.


“ Each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents (including any expert witness’s report) which he intends to rely on at the hearing no later than 4th October 2007’’

I wish to bring to the courts attention that the Defendant has failed to comply with the order in that it has not served upon me the evidence, or any such documents, on which it intends to rely , at the forthcoming hearing, to be held on 14th October 2007.

No application to set aside this order has been made by the Defendant.

I can confirm that my own documents were filed on xx/xx/2007 and served to the Defendant on xx/xx/2007. This was in strict compliance of the order made by Judge ********* on **/**/2007.

It is submitted that the Defendants failure to comply with the order dated xx/xx/2007 creates a significant imbalance between the parties in light of the forthcoming hearing, which I believe to be contrary to the overriding objective. This imbalance is particularly exacerbated by the fact that the Defendant is represented by specialist solicitors, whereas I am a litigant in person.

Accordingly, it is respectfully suggested that the court may be minded to make an order pursuant to Rule 3.4(2)(c) of the Civil Procedure Rules;

3.4 (2) The court may strike out a statement of case if it appears to the court –
(c) that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order."

Yours sincerely

[Amethyst]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Probably merge the two letters together....

You cant apply for wasted costs until they are wasted - ie until they havent complied/been struck out.

And I wouldnt mention the stay application - as they havent made it yet. Personally I think its better the judge knows nothing of this until the hearing cause I cant see him being particularly overjoyed they have wasted a hearing alot for something they should have applied for in writing prior.

[hellhasnofury]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Probably merge the two letters together....

You cant apply for wasted costs until they are wasted - ie until they havent complied/been struck out.

And I wouldnt mention the stay application - as they havent made it yet. Personally I think its better the judge knows nothing of this until the hearing cause I cant see him being particularly overjoyed they have wasted a hearing alot for something they should have applied for in writing prior.

Hello Ame,

Like your letter betterMany thanks

[Tempty]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Hi Hell
I had a sneaky suspicion they may try and pull that one on the court date.
Ame's right though.... don't mention that they have told you they are going to apply for a stay. if they wanted to do that they should have applied to the court for that... as far as the court is concerned right now they have not complied with directions and have not made any application to set aside the orders either. that's gotta look bad for them. Don't wait get that letter in ASAP
Good luck hun
Tempty xx

[hellhasnofury]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Hi Hell
I had a sneaky suspicion they may try and pull that one on the court date.
Ame's right though.... don't mention that they have told you they are going to apply for a stay. if they wanted to do that they should have applied to the court for that... as far as the court is concerned right now they have not complied with directions and have not made any application to set aside the orders either. that's gotta look bad for them. Don't wait get that letter in ASAP
Good luck hun
Tempty xx

Hello Tempty,

It scone:carrot:msl:

[Tempty]

Re: hell-v-shabby

well done :angels:
let's hope they take more notice of yours then they did with me. cobblers managed to pip me to the post with an application to set a hearing for the stay to be reset!! before I could get my request for strike out in....... Grrr sneaky swines that they are 1 step forward 2 steps back with them......... still I'm determined to have the last laugh

[hellhasnofury]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Hello Tempty,

Spent most of the day looking into the info for court on Wednesday, sent e-mails to the lovely Inga and got responses.

In her last one she stated the court had now stayed the case, so I rang the court to be told all cases had been stayed. The court clerk told me a letter was in the post. Told me to now watch the media re the test case and then if I wanted to I could resserrect the case. Well that has well and truely taken the wind out of my sails.

I have lost faith in the financial world, lost faith in the legal system. Where is justice in all of this. It beggars belief.

[Tempty]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Oh hunny I'm so sorry
believe me I know how you feel right now! I was in tears when mine was stayed, elated when the stay was lifted and down in the dumps again when they applied for the stay hearing. It is incredible that while we meet all the deadlines and follow the rules of the court system... these people can get away with flouting the law at every turn.... they can take money illegally, they can ignore deadlines and generally make a mockery of the entire justice system and seemingly get away with it!! the whole thing makes me sick to my stomach it really does.
Don't give up just yet though hun...... it may be worth trying to lift this stay.... I think you have good cause to try to appeal it. You never know if by some miracle I get through this hearing it may give you just the ammo you need to back yours up. I'll be fighting as hard as I can....... not just for me, But for all of us in this situation. And if I don't get the result I want in this hearing I'll be appealing that too!! in short .... if I'm going down.....I'm going down fighting and will make as much noise as possible
LOL if I don't don't come back online tues...... i've been arrested for being in contempt of court LMAO

[hellhasnofury]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Hello,

Received a letter from the court today

Dear HHNF.

Your letter dated the 10th October has been placed before the DJ who has made the following comments:-

"Having read the claimant's letter dated 10th October (this was the fact they had not complied to the judges intructions, ie court bundle) and as this order was made of the courts own motion the claimant may wish to consider an application as envisaged and provided for in pargraph 5 of the order of 10th October 2007"

Para 5 of the order "because this order has been made by the court without considering representations from the parties, the parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. A party wishing to make an application must send or deliver the application to the court (together with any approp fee) to arrive within seven days of service of this order.

MMMmmhhh this looks good, and seems like a fair judge, maybe they have just restored my faith in the legal system.:carrot:

[Amethyst]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Did you receive the letter from the court detailing that your claim had been stayed ?


If the claim has been stayed then this would include the staying of the time limits for bundles etc....seems a bit odd that the court have though havent mentioned the case being stayed in this letter.

[Amethyst]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Hell - Your claim - we know it was charges taken against your child benefit etc. Were the charges resulting from an unauthorised DD set up on your account ??? Or were they ''legitimate'' (used very loosely) ?

They set up a unauthorised DD and took my child tax credit. When I question them after they sent me a letter threatening legal action because the account was £180 overdrawn. They went oh dear, repaid me 5 DD payments under the DD guarentee policy, They had taken 12 of them, but failed to give me back any penality charges.

If so it is not a penalty charge claim in any instance it is a claim for wrongly take money and should not be argued under the pen charges principles, thus should not be stayed. PLUS I cant see where your claim as been stayed apart from the clerk saying all claims have been stayed, and abbey saying they had applied.....Has is actually formally been stayed ???

Oporto is claiming for incorrectly taken monies too - have a look at his thread in Yorkshire bank forum.

[hellhasnofury]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Hell - Your claim - we know it was charges taken against your child benefit etc. Were the charges resulting from an unauthorised DD set up on your account ??? Or were they ''legitimate'' (used very loosely) ?



If so it is not a penalty charge claim in any instance it is a claim for wrongly take money and should not be argued under the pen charges principles, thus should not be stayed. PLUS I cant see where your claim as been stayed apart from the clerk saying all claims have been stayed, and abbey saying they had applied.....Has is actually formally been stayed ???

Oporto is claiming for incorrectly taken monies too - have a look at his thread in Yorkshire bank forum.

Hello Ame.

Thanks for looking. That has been my arguement with the stupid shabby along. I have written to them a few times to remind them, I have put this in the poc, but obviousy they do not read these documents and just sent out a template defence with not address these issues. I have written a seperate letter to the judge to highlight this.

They did not follow the judges order regaining court bundles. Wrote to the judge on the 10th October to inform the judge they had not complied with the instructions etc.

I was well and truely on their case and then salford county court, pulled the rug and did a blanket stay on all bank charges. I was totally and utterly frustated and lost all faith in the legal system. They did write to me inform me that a stay had been applied to the case.

Been sulking for a while, and felt it was not worth the price of recorded delivery to chase up the stay and would wait for the outcome of the test case. Also very very busy with other disputes.

This letter from the judge, has come out of the blue, I feel that she has now read the case and is inviting me to apply for the stay to be lifted.

Or I could be wrong.

Been looking around for a letter to send, I am getting more and more confused by the minute. The letters I have seen are all very serious and all about the oft case.

I think I will just write back with the facts, a simple letter, but the truth and see where I get with that.

[Amethyst]

Re: hell-v-shabby

Right best is to write a letter from scratch to the judge/court and copy to the bank stating categorically this is not a penalty charges claim.... can I see a copy of your POC please and any letters so far and we can work together on a letter. We wont APPLY for the stay to be overturned unless he specificallly requests a formal application.

We can also go through the FOS if you havent started that already ?