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Is it a Direct Debit or a Standing Order? FOS can tell you

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  • Is it a Direct Debit or a Standing Order? FOS can tell you

    http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...-debits-38.htm
    standing order or direct debit?
    Many of the complaints we get about regular payments wrongly describe a standing order as a ‘direct debit’, or a direct debit as a ‘standing order’. It’s maybe not too surprising that customers get the terms muddled up, because standing orders and direct debits do broadly the same thing, even though they work very differently. It doesn’t help, though, when bankers themselves sometimes describe them wrongly. Here's a brief explanation:

    standing orders are customers’ instructions to their bank to pay a set amount, to a named beneficiary, at regular intervals (say on the 1st of the month) – either for a specific period of time or until cancelled.
    direct debits are:
    customers’ authority for beneficiaries to claim payments (variable in amount and frequency) from the customers’ accounts;
    and customers’ instructions to their bank to allow the taking of those payments.
    A standing order requires the customer’s bank to send the money. A direct debit requires the beneficiary to claim the money.
    Typically, a standing order might be used to pay a fixed amount to a savings account or to a local club. A direct debit is more likely to be used to make payments that can vary from time to time – such as mortgage instalments or utility bills.
    The day-to-day advantage of a direct debit over a standing order is that, as and when the payment amount changes, the beneficiary will claim the new amount automatically – after telling the customer of the change. With a standing order, customers need to give their bank new instructions each time a change is needed.

    how the systems work
    Standing orders can be simpler than direct debits – mainly because the beneficiary is not involved in claiming payments. At set times, the customer’s bank just sends the money to the beneficiary’s bank and only the customer can alter the payments. The beneficiary can be anyone.
    In contrast, the variable nature of direct debits means that beneficiaries can claim different amounts at different times. This flexibility is the main advantage of the direct debit system – but there is a potential risk that unscrupulous or inefficient beneficiaries might claim money that is not due to them.
    To combat this – and to reassure customers – the direct debit system contains two main safeguards:
    The direct debit guarantee provides for the customer’s bank to refund disputed payments without question, pending further investigation. Direct debits can only be set up for payments to beneficiaries that are approved ‘originators’ of direct debits. In order to be approved, these beneficiaries are subjected to careful vetting procedures – and, once approved, they are required to give indemnity guarantees through their banks.
    Usually, the customer has to sign a direct debit form, although some particularly trusted originators are authorised to set up direct debits where the customer has given authority over the phone. If that sounds a little risky, remember that the originator must have obtained the bank account details from the customer – and that the customer is protected by the direct debit guarantee.
    Payments themselves are made by a system that is in some ways based on the cheque clearing system. This means that the process usually starts two working days before the money is due to reach the beneficiary’s bank account.
    Direct debits are processed through BACS (Bankers’ Automated Clearing Services), as follows:
    Day 1: BACS receives electronic details of all direct debit payments due on Day 3
    Day 2: BACS sorts the information between banks and gives each bank a report of all payments due on Day 3
    Day 3: Payments are made – the beneficiary’s bank account is credited, and the customer’s bank is debited
    Just as with a cheque, a bank can ‘bounce’ a standing order or a direct debit if there’s not enough money in the customer’s account on Day 3 to cover it. And, in most circumstances, the customer can cancel, or ‘stop’, a standing order or a direct debit up to and during Day 3 – the day of payment.
    recent trends and developmentsConsumers are making more and more use of standing orders and direct debits. Over the past couple of years, transaction numbers have gone up by about 12%. In fact, standing orders have seen something of a renaissance in recent years – with the increased use of internet banking making it easier not just to set them up, but also to keep them up-to-date.
    Since late 2003, BACS has comprised two organisations:
    BACS Limited – responsible for physically processing payments
    and maintaining the payment network; and
    BACS Payment Systems Limited – governing the rules under which payments are made, and responsible for maintaining and developing the integrity of payment schemes. It’s still too early to tell what effect this division of responsibility will have. But last year saw the beginning of a major upgrade to the system used to make payments – from telecoms-based to internet-based. This is due to be fully operational by 2005.
    The principal advantage of an automated ‘regular payments’ system is that, if it all works correctly, the right payments are made at the right times without regular human intervention. But ironically, this is also its biggest potential weakness. If, at the outset, payment information is keyed wrongly into the bank’s system, then payments will be made wrongly and will continue to be made wrongly until someone spots the mistake. Often, it will be the customer, not the bank, who discovers the problem – maybe many months afterwards, and sometimes only once the person who was expecting the money has complained that they’ve not received it.


    The Item is date 2004 and so the basic information is correct although I am expecting them to update it when faster payments comes in next May
    Last edited by Nattie; 18th December 2007, 07:43:AM.

  • #2
    Re: Is it a Direct Debit or a Standing Order? FOS can tell you

    Natts nice thread but could you explain the followig?
    I have a NW step account, A magazine offer camr through my door, 1 month free trial, cancel the standing order by phoning the number supplied.
    I took the offer, realised the mad was ****e. phoned the nymber, and told the account was closed. This was 18 months ago.
    Got a print out from NW Atm, was left with DR£119.
    The print out read SO 119 to XXX publishing.
    Aparently the agreemeny was for £59, the first year they took even though I never notices (the amount was similar to 2 other D/D).
    When i questioned It was my fault for giving the company my deatails even though I cancelled, and they had took 2 years premiums in 1 go.
    And when asking NW for proof of the SO, they told me they only keep photo stats, and to retreive the originals, they would have to call back the originals from storage, it could be in 1 of 3 boxes at a cost to me of £25 per box.
    I have threatened court action, what say you?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Is it a Direct Debit or a Standing Order? FOS can tell you

      I would say you should have called/written to NatWest as well to get them to cancel the Standing Order. I am afraid their posturing is wrong because all Standing Orders are scanned onto a system called Image and Workflow that does go back a number of years. If the branch have suggested that they have to charge £25 then I would suggest you speak with customer relations and state you need the paperwork for a legal case against the company.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Is it a Direct Debit or a Standing Order? FOS can tell you

        Some feedback on what happened here would be interesting, strangewayofsavin.

        Nattie's response is written on the basis that the payment was a standing order, but it sounds unlikely given that you say "they took two payments at once". That wouldn't happen with a standing order because you would control the payments for a standing order.

        It sounds to me like a DD.

        Banks don't need to have copies of the paper DD agreements at all - third parties are allowed to key them electronically and submit them electronically to your bank.

        I don't see why you want a copy of the DD in any case - you accept that you authorised a DD in the first place, so the DD won't show you anything. DDs are almost always for variable amounts, so you won't even see that it said the amount should be £59 per year, not £119.

        The issue relates to whether you cancelled the DD or not. As Nattie says, you should definitely have cancelled the DD with NatWest when you cancelled it with the magazine publisher.

        You say you phoned the publisher and said "the account was closed" even though it wasn't. Why? If you wanted to cancel, that's what you needed to say, not confuse them by saying you'd closed your account.

        And if we're talking about an unauthorised DD payment, your first response should be a DD guarantee claim against NatWest, not resort to litigation. Over-reaction doesn't get things resolved any quicker.

        Comment

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