'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

[supermac9]

I'm sorry to say that my friends at Santander have been winding me up again.
Around a week ago, two direct debits were paid, both of which will attract an unauthorised overdraft fee - this is despite the fact that my online records clearly show that neither direct debit took my account beyond the overdraft limit.
Their explanation is that there was 'pending' debit card payment around the same time - this was debited from my account four days later, after I had paid cash into my account to cover it.
I would have expected the debit card payment to have been refused (as opposed to being 'pending', whatever that means) if there was insufficient funds, but Santander's explanation is that the 'merchant' did not request authorisation so it would automatically go through.
I am waiting for a more detailed explanation of what this means - I will post an update when received.

[leclerc]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

I'm sorry to say that my friends at Santander have been winding me up again.
Around a week ago, two direct debits were paid, both of which will attract an unauthorised overdraft fee - this is despite the fact that my online records clearly show that neither direct debit took my account beyond the overdraft limit.
Their explanation is that there was 'pending' debit card payment around the same time - this was debited from my account four days later, after I had paid cash into my account to cover it.
I would have expected the debit card payment to have been refused (as opposed to being 'pending', whatever that means) if there was insufficient funds, but Santander's explanation is that the 'merchant' did not request authorisation so it would automatically go through.
I am waiting for a more detailed explanation of what this means - I will post an update when received.

Floor limits: That's why I hate them cos they do not ask for authorisation before agreeing to the payment.

[supermac9]

'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

After trading numerous online messages with the customer (non)service team at Santander, they have changed their minds and instead of the pending dedit card payments being the problem, it's now because of a cheque that was paid into the account on 30.01.12.
However, they have stated in their latest message that the cheque did not clear until 03.02.12, the same date as the direct debits left our account - they are trying to argue that they paid the direct debits before the money from the cheque was available, even though both took place on the same date?
I'm starting to struggle in a big way with this - the cheque in question was a printed bank cheque, not a personal cheque, so they can hardly argue that it needs days and days to clear when the money will already have been taken out of the senders account on the day it was produced.
They just don't want to admit they are wrong, but unless I'm missing the point here, I still can't see how they can justify the fees. Needless to say, I have sent them a couple of lengthy online messages just to keep them thinking.
As always, I'll post updates.

[leclerc]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

Supermac, that is a little bit disingenuous of them, if the cheque had bounced then yes they have the right and technically they are right on cheque clearing however many cheques show as cleared after t+2 days so I think they need a better explanation than that one

If the cheque was a santander cheque then potentially you may be right.

Santander - Terms Conditions

Explains the clearing cycle in full.

[supermac9]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

Thanks Leclerc, appreciate your feedback.
How's this - the latest message from them is that the cheque in question (paid in on 30.01.12) didn't actually clear until 06.02.12 now!! I'm not sure how to compete against the shifting sands that Santander keep putting my way - surely they can't just be making things up as they go along to justify the fees charged?

[bluebottle]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

Supermac. The best way to deal with this is to warn them that it is an offence under Section 2(1), Fraud Act 2006 to falsely misrepresent a matter as to fact or as to law. If they honestly think they can say one date, then quote another, and get away with it, they must be harbouring an employment death wish as well as a court appearance.

It sounds very much to me that they are making things up to justify their fees - and I am a Santander customer of over 40 years' standing and a shareholder!

Write and warn them their actions could result in legal action being taken individuals and Santander (UK) Plc. Unless Leclerc and others who work or have worked in banking know otherwise.

[supermac9]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

Meant to ask earlier, but what exactly are 'floor limits'? It seems a bit odd to me that the 'merchant' doesn't bother asking for authorisation and the payments simply go through, whether there is money in an account for them or not.

[leclerc]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

Floor limit is an amount say £10.00 for example in which the machine will authorise the transaction without seeking that authorisation from the bank or may only check authorisation at randon, ie every 50 transactions for example.

[supermac9]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

I have written to Santander about this, but their online customer (non)service team has come back to me to say they still think the fees are legitimate! I have told them that it has been put into writing.
Watch this space.

[leclerc]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

I have written to Santander about this, but their online customer (non)service team has come back to me to say they still think the fees are legitimate! I have told them that it has been put into writing.
Watch this space.

If their online team have a chat facility then save the conversation because clearly that is a written record of what they have said. You have to remember that the fees are for consideration of the transaction. Floor limits is an interesting point, I guess.

[supermac9]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

I have had my fees refunded back into our account so there's a result, but no sign of their letter yet - will post an update once it arrives.

[supermac9]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

Another update after more dealings with my friends at Santander.
Tha latest correspondence relates to the refund of what I feel to be incorrectly applied fees.
The situation is very simple - I have had two letters from Santander, one which said they would waive £100 of fees (which have been refunded to me - that's the good bit), a second letter which refers to £150 of fees being waived (which I certainly have not had either waived or refunded), and a subesquent charge of £110 against my account for a combination of unauthorised overdraft fees, authorised overdraft and paid item fees.
Santander will not explain what the £150 of fees actually relates to - I have never seen this figure on any of my statements - they also won't say if the £150 is in addition to the £100 already refunded, or why I have still been charged £110 fees after being told that £150 is to be waived!! I get the impression that they have made a mistake but don't want to admit it or put it right. The latest online message I have had from them states that they really did waive the £150 fees and that I'll be getting nothing more - I have explained where they seem to be going wrong with this. I await their reply - god knows what they will try to come up with this time, I shudder to think.

[bluebottle]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

The online Customer Service Team at Santander really are scraping the barrel if they think they can bamboozle customers with the sort of crap they have come out with in your case. I am sorely tempted to advise you to send them a letter suggesting they stick to facts they can back up with hard evidence and not the fairy stories they keep coming up with. Because their credibility has hit rock-bottom. Ask them for proof of these fees and charges and the dates they were applied to your account. Give them no more than 48 hours to produce the evidence. My gut-feeling is that they won't be able to do so.

Keep the following legislation up your sleeve and do not mention this in any correspondence (including emails) to Santander -

Section 17, Theft Act 1968 (False Accounting)
Section 2(1), Fraud Act 2006 (Fraud by False Misrepresentation)
Section 3(1), Fraud Act 2006 (Fraud by Failure to Disclose Information)
Section 4(1), Fraud Act 2006 (Fraud by Abuse of Position)

In my experience, Lloyds TSB are the worst offenders for telling lies to customers. Santander seem to be trying their best to oust them. Not clever, Santander. Not at all clever.

[supermac9]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

On a similar theme, the latest attempt by Santander to tip me over the egde is to send me (and my wife, separately) notification that I will be charged for an unpaid standing order - the only issue I have with this is that the standing order in question went through as normal, it didn't make my account overdrawn, all fine as far as my online records show - the company receiving the money have confirmed that it was received. Since the initial notification (one of their standard slips of paper through the post), I have seen that my online record now shows that they will take the £25.00 from our account at the end of this month for this - this is despite me sending them three online complaint messages, which have been completely ignored.
Am I going mad?

[supermac9]

Re: 'Pending' Payments and Unauthorised Debit Card Payments

A quick update:
After a conversation with Santander they cancelled the £25 charge and apologised.
Even better news - during the same conversation, Santander agreed to refund £110 fees charged previously.
I have now run out of things to complain about.