Swift Advances Plc?

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

[quote=Dougal16T;221265]Good evening all,

You may not know that my claim against Swift Advances for repayment of commission failed recently, however I have been given leave to apply for permission to Appeal by the Circuit Judge. I have lodged my Skeleton statements at the Court and also lodged a copy with Swift.

In accordance with her Directions I am acquiring the trascripts of the hearing and will hopefully be going to Appeal in September (this year....

Exactly the same has happened with GE Money, and they too will be 'dealt with' later this year (September springs to mind!!)

In the meantime I too have been in touch with my local CID office.........

Keep the faith,

Best wishes to all

Dougal[/quote

Hi Dougal,

What I can say to peeps is there is one thing that is as certain as water freezes their account with Swift is being or was being accounted for (double accounted for) by one of the Kestrel Loans companies....it is just that they make sure you are not supplied with the documents they supplied me by complete mistake.
Everyone should ask their local police to obtain these records from Swift .....only the police will be able to obtain them and prove what I say is absolute fact.
Forgot ....The inland revenue is another way

Sparkie

Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

I kow some folks might think I'm going on too much abot this secret commission ......but if I win on this issue............every Swift customer can win also......they have at last admitted that this "over ride commission" is/was paid to all brokers/agents.
This my argument against what they will attempt to say in Court, that it is not commission.

For almost 3 years “Swift” have denied paying any commission whatsoever, and for 2 years “Promise” have denied receiving this commission.
Now that it has been forced out of “Promise” that they received commission.
“Swift” have now been forced to admit they did pay it.
Now they have been caught out you must notice in the letter received from “Promise” (posted on the thread about them”) they try to cover the fact by saying it is “an over ride commission” in attempt to avoid the word “ bribe”…undisclosed commission

In “Swift’s” letter they call it an “over ride payment” and try to say it is not commission.
In any event it is a secret payment of undisclosed amount…….. until now, they even blocked it all out on our underwriting sheet.

This is the same scenario as person who is charged by someone in that ......“ Your dog bit my child and caused her terrible injuries”………..the person charged says in his Defence “ I haven’t got a dog I’ve got a Pit Bull” …............a Pit Bull is a dog………simple fact.

This over ride payment/commission despite any attempts to call it different ……..is commission, it is a bribe...
It was not disclosed and therefore secret.
I can’t see any defence to that, and would ask anyone and everyone to please argue against me so that I have every angle covered

Sparkie

Dougal ....you can also claim in your oral submissions in your appeal that this new evidence has come to light where Swift will more likely than not have paid this further over ride commission on your loan also .
As Swift have now admitted at such a late stage that they pay it to all brokers, you now require that amount to be disclosed as you are entitled to this back also plus interest.

Sparkie
Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

Swift also cannot use the argument that we were aware of this payment as both Promise and Swift try to say that it was stated in the FISA booklet we recived.................if you look at the document posted on post 159 ...our security check .....you will see that the question about this booklet was never asked .....note our answer is not ringed Yes or... No showing quite clearly we were never asked that question and is the reason we never saw one until I found it on the net a few days ago.

Another reason we never received this booklet from Promise Finance Ltd is ....they were not on the list of Brokers of the FISA.........they weren't members of the FISA so more likely than not did not have these alleged booklets.

I've posted a list of brokers who are members of the FISA.................Promise are not on that list

Sparkie
Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

I know that both "Promise Solutions" & "Swift" will fight our claim against them so I have already begun drafting our POC which will be precise and clear backed up with the documents that will be difficult to defend against.
Small Claims Court of course.

Sparkie

[jumper999]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

Hi sparkie, can swift not argue that in their terms and conditions they state that the broker will receive additional commissions for arranging this loan?

[jumper999]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

The reason I ask this is that I know that my broker received commissions more than they have admitted. They admit receiving 1.4% but I know on my brokers call log there is refernce next to the 1.4 of + 3.6 and 5.8 meaning that they recieved two more sets of commissions.

But reading the terms and conditions of my loan agreement it states:

"THE LENDER MAY ALSO MAKE ADDITIONAL PAYMENTS TO THE BROKER IN RESPECT OF THE VOLUME OF BUSINESS PLACED BY THE BROKER WITH THE LENDER. THE LENDER HAS NO OBJECTION TO THE BORROWER ASKING THE BROKER FOR DETAILS OF ANY COMMISSION PAYABLE"

Now how would I find out what extra commissions the broker received? would I need to contact the broker?

Is there a template that I could use to ask my broker specifically how much more commission they received and what the two extra sums were for of 3.6 and 5.8?

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

The reason I ask this is that I know that my broker received commissions more than they have admitted. They admit receiving 1.4% but I know on my brokers call log there is refernce next to the 1.4 of + 3.6 and 5.8 meaning that they recieved two more sets of commissions.

But reading the terms and conditions of my loan agreement it states:

"THE LENDER MAY ALSO MAKE ADDITIONAL PAYMENTS TO THE BROKER IN RESPECT OF THE VOLUME OF BUSINESS PLACED BY THE BROKER WITH THE LENDER. THE LENDER HAS NO OBJECTION TO THE BORROWER ASKING THE BROKER FOR DETAILS OF ANY COMMISSION PAYABLE"

Now how would I find out what extra commissions the broker received? would I need to contact the broker?

Is there a template that I could use to ask my broker specifically how much more commission they received and what the two extra sums were for of 3.6 and 5.8?

Hullo jumper.

There is no mention of anything like this in Swifts terms & conditions................the only way you will find this out in your case is by asking the Court to Order full disclosure on this issue.

Sparkie
Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

[jumper999]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

Thanks sparkie, that will one of the things I will be asking for.......

ta

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

Heres something for folks to think about with reference to this "over ride payment" ......if you read the letter from Swift Advances on Post 135, you will note they say this is paid "out of their own funds".......now if this £1400 or so is taken as the average.......Swift have about 20,000 loans out that would mean they paid out some...........£28,000,000..........OUT of their own funds?????:nono:

I don't think they are that generous???????

Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

[Dougal16T]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

Hi sparkie, can swift not argue that in their terms and conditions they state that the broker will receive additional commissions for arranging this loan?

Good evening,

The answer is no - the reason is Wilson - v - Hurstanger in the Court of Appeal [2007], the decision in essence in that case was that the exact amount of the commission must be disclosed OR the exact method of calculation of that commission must be disclosed by the Lender and/or Broker prior to the inception of the agreement.

It is worth a read, and Lord Justice Tuckey set out his decision very clearly.

Best wishes to all

Dougal

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

Good evening,

Hi Dougal
There is another case that is stronger than Hurstanger and just adds much more weight to the Hurstanger ruling ...and that is the Kelvin Jack case

Sparkie

Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark




The answer is no - the reason is Wilson - v - Hurstanger in the Court of Appeal [2007], the decision in essence in that case was that the exact amount of the commission must be disclosed OR the exact method of calculation of that commission must be disclosed by the Lender and/or Broker prior to the inception of the agreement.

It is worth a read, and Lord Justice Tuckey set out his decision very clearly.

Best wishes to all

Dougal

Heres something for folks to think about with refernece to this "over ride payment" if you read the letter from Swift Advances on Post 135, you will note they say this is paid "out of their own funds".......now if this £1400 or so is taken as the average.......Swift have about 20,000 loans out that would mean they paid out some

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

This is the last Paragraph of that Supreme Court Ruling.....pretty damming.

Sparkie
Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark

Imageview Management Ltd v Jack [2009] EWCA Civ 63 (13 February 2009)
65. Only one regret, and that is that it is still necessary, in the 21st century, to remind agents of what was said by the greatest of all the judges, Bowen LJ in Boston Deep Sea Fishing at pages 362-363, about conflicts of duty and interest and the necessity for transparency in the dealings of agents, if confidence in them is to continue. In our age it is more important than it ever was for the courts to hold the precise and firm line drawn between payments openly, and therefore honestly, received by agents, and undeclared payments received by agents secretly, and therefore justly liable to all the legal consequences flowing from breaches of an agent's fiduciary obligations.

[jumper999]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

Great find sparkie, I think I could use that in my case especially the part "CONFLICT OF DUTY" as I know that my broker had a lot to gain for finding a loan for us with our Lender.

[yorkie-dave]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

hi all,only just joined but have been following the swift threads with interest over the last few months on the quiet

we got a 2nd mortgage loan with swift in 2004 over 10yrs,just looking at our paperwork and it says brokers fee and legal documentation fee,the broker looks like it was portfield finance.

since mr white said they dont pay brokers fee's can this be claimed back?

if they dont pay commision to brokers then would the courts look at this as 'bribe' by swift to encourage brokers to accept 'less than favorable' applicants for loans?

i can scan and post our agreement and omit personal details of course if it helps anyone?

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Swift Advances Plc?

hi all,only just joined but have been following the swift threads with interest over the last few months on the quiet

we got a 2nd mortgage loan with swift in 2004 over 10yrs,just looking at our paperwork and it says brokers fee and legal documentation fee,the broker looks like it was portfield finance.

since mr white said they dont pay brokers fee's can this be claimed back?

if they dont pay commision to brokers then would the courts look at this as 'bribe' by swift to encourage brokers to accept 'less than favorable' applicants for loans?

i can scan and post our agreement and omit personal details of course if it helps anyone?

Hi yorkie-dave,

Just to clarify the point re Brokers fees .........the brokers are declared .....commission is a separate issue .....it is this commission Mr White declared they do not pay......it is this you can claim back.

Post up your agreement And the terms and conditions lets have a look at it.....remove all pesonal details of course.
Sparkie

Remember everyone I have no legal training and my views are not to taken as legal advice.........I am a dumb 74 year old senile auto spark