Kafka v Welcome Finance ***RESULT***

[Kafka]

In desperation I took out a car loan with these cowboys 4 years ago. The loan is effectively paid off, but when I recently got a statement from them for the first time ever, there are about 900 added 'fees'. Putting all of these into the standard SS with 8%, the balance owed is only about 20 more than the penalties.

My plan is to start proceedings against them for the justification of these vague fees or else to remove them from the outstanding balance. They fall into 3 categories.

1 lots of 5 or 10 fees that are seemingly for phone calls or letters. For the past year or so I have paid them in full last day of each month, yet recently they added a 5 charge on the last day of one month when I had paid them. Another recent month they charged 10 fee for sending a stupid template letter the next day saying I had refused to answer their letters, when I hadn't had a letter since last year and had paid them the day before. I think this last one is a good specimen example of incompetence and deceipt.

2 Penalties for returned DDs - clear penalties amounting to about 100.

3 Last year they added lump 'fees' on over several months. One 400 then 3 odd amounts about 80-90 quid. No explanation, nothing, just 700 aded on to the account with no notification or explanation.

My intention is to challenge everything as unlawful penalties and challenge them to reveal actual costs and for what service.

Before I do this can anyone advise please? This seems to be standard Welcome stuff, though I haven't found many cases where someone has actually taken them on.

Thanks
K.

[iancognito]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

I've not had personal experience with these clowns but from what I've read they seem to think they are above the law and don't have to respond to questions regarding their questionable practices so I'm not sure I would bother trying to correspond with them other than a prelim and LBA, but i would ask the specific questions in these two letters, just to show in court that you have made every attempt to clarify matters.

Have you still got your agreement? worth asking for one if not just to see what it says about charges etc. obviously there are penalties in there so you are justified in taking them to court and if you can prove they are sending letters needlessly to make money, you should get those costs back too.

[Tools]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

Kafka ,

If you haven`t got a copy of your original agreement then get it ASAP and let me have a copy as I have a very strong feeling that it wont be enforceable.

Send off a CCA request if you haven`t already got a copy of the agreement .

Forget actually questioning their fees for now , and make the CCA request.

Let me know asap what you get back or if you already have a copy of the agreement.

[thephoenix]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

I'm also in dispute with welcome over an unfair indemnity clause, which, due to complexity am using a solicitor :rolleyes:

welcome will fight all the way, but you have to be determined and tools is right, welcome's agreement are, lets say.....dodgy (allegedly)

[Sapphire]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

Kafka hun, I took on Welcome whilst over the road as darling. They were probably my first or second 'victim' so effectively they were my training exercise if you like, and o be honest I found them easy to deal with.
If you want a link give me a shout hun.

sapphire

[thephoenix]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

Kafka ,

If you haven`t got a copy of your original agreement then get it ASAP and let me have a copy as I have a very strong feeling that it wont be enforceable.

Send off a CCA request if you haven`t already got a copy of the agreement .

Forget actually questioning their fees for now , and make the CCA request.

Let me know asap what you get back or if you already have a copy of the agreement.

Hi Tools

just out of interest, what in particular would render the agreement unenforceable? what have you picked up on with welcome's agreements?

[pam1]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

If its a car loan possibly your trade in money will be re-added to your loan, your interest will be over rated and to high.

Once you calculate you may find £500 will be left after you would have completed your loan and that would be to insure they could refinance you and keep you on the debit wheel or tell you they will accept a certain amount and write the remainder of the balance off, when the truth is you never owed it anyway.

There is more on the list havent got brain in gear at the mo, but You definitely need to see the agreement.

sorry just nicked Tools question. But hey Tools maybe a few more there for you to ponder through. ;-)

[Tools]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

Hi Pheonix ,

As Pam quite rightly points out many of their agreements have in the past included many different `naughties` :devil: and judging by the amount of car sales companies using financing from Welcome , Yes Car Credit and similar , I would say there are quite a few thousand unenforceable agreements kicking around out there .

[Kafka]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

I have all the paperwork for this one and plan to go through it this weekend.

The reason I have delayed is that a member has PMd me to say that someone has had a letter from a WF agent saying they have gone bust and she no longer owes anything. I've heard nothing and there's nothing on their website, but hopefully they have gone the way of Yes Car Credit.

I need to put the account into dispute anyway, so that I don't need to pay them any more, until the extra charges are removed from the account.

More soon...

K.

[pam1]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

I would love to see a copy of that letter, account managers will send out anything if they think they can divert from being under the spot light. there is no end to the Bull they mubble through.

If this is the case so many people lives will change dramatically for the better, but why wouldn't they resell the debts if that where the case.?

I would say to your friend to keep the letter safe from anyone Else's hands, as if it is a case of an account manager trying to be clever, she will now have excellent proof should anyone want to get money from her.

keep an eye on this web site, cattles own Welcome Finance.

http://www.cattles.co.uk/index.php?about_us_

[Kafka]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

Kafka ,

If you haven`t got a copy of your original agreement then get it ASAP and let me have a copy as I have a very strong feeling that it wont be enforceable.

Send off a CCA request if you haven`t already got a copy of the agreement .

Forget actually questioning their fees for now , and make the CCA request.

Let me know asap what you get back or if you already have a copy of the agreement.

I attach scans of the CCA of which I have kept a copy.

My immediate interest is in challenging the charges mentioned above and I'm looking at the other paperwork too.

There is also PPI of 1487 and I have thought about that one. I note that the declaration said I was in full-time employment, when in fact I was self-employed and they knew all about this. I gather that that is one area where the PPI becomes unenforceable under certain conditions?

[Tools]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

Hi Kafka

Have PM`d you regarding this agreement .

Just as I suspected , as did pam1 , they have re-added your trade in value to the total amount repayable .

I`ve also asked you for the bill of sale / invoice for the actual value of the car to cross reference the screen price of the car if you have it still.

This is so typical of many of these agreements if anyone has one ........double check it.

[Amethyst]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

Bloody hell they have too

the £1000 should be a credit figure but they have added it on - that side of the agreement should be £7282

the car should be 'cost' of £5282 - LESS Part ex allowance of £1k - hence the £4282..... but then they add it on to the total ..

The insurance side BLOODY HELL !!!! lol sorry.

Be very interesting to see the bill of sale....and yes I would say the agreement is totally unenforceable.

Lol just agreeing with Tools really.

[Kafka]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

Hi Kafka

Have PM`d you regarding this agreement .

Just as I suspected , as did pam1 , they have re-added your trade in value to the total amount repayable .

I`ve also asked you for the bill of sale / invoice for the actual value of the car to cross reference the screen price of the car if you have it still.

This is so typical of many of these agreements if anyone has one ........double check it.

I have PMd you copies of the original invoice. Will check these thoroughly myself later.

The issue now is how I approach them before the end of the month when the next payment is due (they expect anyway). I wasn't going to pay then because of the added fees, but now it seems there are added fees (of 3 types), the wrong total wih the trade-in value and possibly the PPI too.

Is this one claim or do they have to be separated?

[Amethyst]

Re: Kafka v Welcome Finance

One claim - all charges

plus the £1000 - and all interest on that £1000

plus the extra insurances to cover that £1000.

and interest of that part of the insurances.

plus 8%


plus no further payments cause the agreement is totally unenforceable.

Tools will tell u later