Conker v Natwest

[Tools]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Working on this with Ame also

Just to clarify

So at the AQ hearing you should ...

Firstly ask the judge to keep it on small claims track with no order for costs. As the claim is over 5k they are entitled to ask for fast track and costs. They should provide a breakdown of their estimate for costs also.

Mention that they have failed to comply with your 31.14 request and...

Ask the court to order shakespeare to disclose CCA & default notice for the loan, as these are vital for your defence. If no CCA exists then they have no cause of action to bring.

Are you also aware if there have been any charges applied to the loan account?

Accept the stay on the disputed amount as made up of unfair charges ref test case.

The undisputed amount you have made an offer to pay installments of £10/month backed up by the I/E you gave to court, so that should just go through and you'll get the CCJ and installment order on that.

The charges of £1435 odd, are they what shakespeare have calculated or do you know this from a SAR/statements?

You need to dispute ANY charges added to either account as well as making sure the judge orders they supply you with the information requested.

[conker]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Thank you both very much

[Amethyst]

Re: Conker v Natwest

just thinking, is the claim over 5k AFTER the partial admission ?

If so argue that the remaining claim that will continue in court with the stay is under £5k and should stay in small claims.


Also, if you dont feel all that confident arguing all this in court, it might be an idea to write another witness statement up specifically for this hearing and submitting it to the court in the morning before the hearing - they may not have time to read it, but you can use it as a basis and refer to points on it if you get in a pickle at all.

[conker]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Hi Ame/Tools

Thank you for your help outcome from the court is as follows

1) Judge gave me a CCJ for £20.00 for the overdraft case (which i can manage)& did not include the disputed charges till after the OFT case this Wednesday.
2) Judge ordered the claimants solicitor to provide a CCA within 6 weeks and was not happy that the first request was in May and they had not produced it.

Basically the loan account is on hold till CCA provided,although not pleasant was certainly not as bad as I expected.I took your advice Ame and put everything you and Tools have advised in a letter which I gave to the court and the claimants solicitor,also gave copies of communication between myself and the claimant,communication with CCCS,CAB etc and income & expenditure.

Not 100% sure but believe the case remains with small claims rather than fast track,the solicitor did raise this prior to going in but I said they are different accounts and the loan one is below 5K.This bit was not really raised in the court from what I can remember,I suppose i could clarify with the court??

Have disputed charges and the solicitor suppplied me with account details going back 6 years(i think)and this is where they get the charges figures from so i have no reason to dispute as the have given me full account details,will just maybe go through all the accounts to ensure their maths is correct.

Will now await the CCA unless you feel there is anything else i should be doing???

Thanks again and to all those out there in a similar position you can deal with these things they are not as bad as they may seem especially with this website and the people on it kindly offering their time and tremendous advice.

Regards
Conker

[Amethyst]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Fabulous - sounds like exactly what you wanted.

so the loan part of the case will be decided after they supply the CCA, the undisputed overdraft you have an installment order for £20 a month, and the disputed overdraft is on hold till after the test case..... that right ?

did anything happen with costs ? I'd guess they were awarded a proportional amount this time ?

Well done...you are right, whilst it might not be the most pleasant of experiences it isn't as bad as many people believe and the outcome is always 100 times better if you show up.

I don't think you need do anything other than make the payments and wait for the cca for now.

[conker]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Thanks Ame

Yes you are correct in what you are saying and was the result i was after

Costs were not really mentioned but will check with the court

Regards
Conker

[Tools]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Checklist for you.

• What is the position re costs ?
• What is the position re tack ? small claims or fast track ?
• Will you have to submit for a new date after Wednesdays hearing or can you wait until the FSA waiver is lifted ?
• Could you post up the letter you gave to the court/natwest to help others?
• Sit back and as Ame says make sure you keep up with the £20 payments.

[conker]

Re: Conker v Natwest

will respond soon just got back been away for a few days

[conker]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Hi Tools

Costs have not been resolved yet i suppose they will be once the claim is finally sorted out.
The case has not been allocated yet so not sure what track it will end up on.
The defended part of the case is scheduled for January once they provide a CCA I presume the bank charges will be dealt with further along the case now the banks have won the case.

This is the letter I sent to the court along with
1) A letter explaining my financial position,how and why etc,also giving current earnings
2) Recent payslips
3) Copies of all communication with the claimant(showing I had always been in touch)
4) Income & Expenditure

CLAIM NO *********
Account Numbers ******** & ******
I have been advised to request the following at the Allocation Hearing 23/11/09
1) That the remainding claim for account number ******* which is under £5000
be kept on small claims track with no order for costs
2) That the court orders the claimant to disclose the CCA & Default notice
for account no ******** as these are vital to my defence
3) That it be recorded the claimant failed to comply with the CPR 31.14 request
4) That the claimant disclose all charges to both accounts from January 2008
5) That the claimant discloses all legal costs incurred since the initial CCA request

Please record I accept the stay on the disputed charges relating to account
number ******** though cannot accept the total of £1435.45 is accurate
until the claimant discloses relevant documents.
Also enclosed is a letter explaining my situation and attached to that is an
income and expenditure sheet and other documents relevant to my situation
and this claim.

Hope this helps others

Thanks
Conker

[conker]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Hi All

In light of the court siding with the banks am i in any position to still contest the charges levied against this account which the court put on hold till after the OFT case due to my financial hardship???

Regards
Conker

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Hi All

In light of the court siding with the banks am i in any position to still contest the charges levied against this account which the court put on hold till after the OFT case due to my financial hardship???

Regards
Conker

They didn't side with the banks. They stated the OFT could not continue to assess the charges under their narrow definition.
What is the wording of your stay in court?

[conker]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Hi Natweststaffmember

Thanks for responding on the general form of judgement letter i recieved it states

1. Judgement for the claimant for £2464.96 at £20 per month 1st payment 16 December 2009(this being for the overdraft minus the charges)

2. The remainder of the claim is stayed from 13 jan 2010 to 27 jan 2010,the claimant must inform the court of the outcome of the stay and what further directions are requested agree or otherwise

3. Costs in the case

I have recieved a letter from the claimant stating "in light of the outcome of the OFT test case I am fully liable for all charges on the current account" they have also asked me to provide a proposal of repayment that they may consider before 19 jan 2010

Unfortunately they have also provided a copy of the loan agreement which contains all the details as in the Nationwide loan agreement (posted under conker v nationwide) so looks like i am well beaten on this one.

Your advice on the way forward will be greatly appreciated

Thanks
Conker

[Amethyst]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Hi Conker

Do you want to continue fighting the charges part of the claim ?

I have recieved a letter from the claimant stating "in light of the outcome of the OFT test case I am fully liable for all charges on the current account" they have also asked me to provide a proposal of repayment that they may consider before 19 jan 2010

Can you post the letter up from Natwest

If you want to carry on you will need to tell the bank and court you will continue then enter a counterclaim/amended defence & witness statement. Will be easier to know what to do once we've seen the letter from the bank.

Please record I accept the stay on the disputed charges relating to account
number ******** though cannot accept the total of £1435.45 is accurate
until the claimant discloses relevant documents.

You have already told the court this bit so thats good.

1. Judgement for the claimant for £2464.96 at £20 per month 1st payment 16 December 2009(this being for the overdraft minus the charges)

Are you making those payments?

[conker]

Re: Conker v Natwest

Hi Ame

The natwest letter is as follows

We now enclose copy loan agreement dated 23 March 2007 in relation to loan account*****
As you will be aware,in light of the outcome of the OFT test case you are now fully liable for all charges applied to the current account *****
The claim is currently stayed and our client must inform the outcome of the stay by 25 Jan 2010.We would therefore be grateful if you would provide us with your proposals you wish our client to consider in respect of repaying the balance of the cliam no later than 19 Jan 2010

Does this mean if I offer £15/£20 for each of the loan account and overdraft charges the court case would cease??

If there is a reasonable chance of success I would still probably contest the charges but do you think it is really worth it?What are the chances of succeeding or am i just going to mount up further costs??

I am making the regular payments as per the courts instruction

Regards
Conker

[Amethyst]

Re: Conker v Natwest

First question I think is what is the loan agreement like ? Is it a copy of the orginal with all the information provided ?
If it is sound then yes an offer to pay (that is affordable) if not then we can look at defending on that basis, really need to see it tho if you think its not right.

Regarding the overdraft amount - this is £1400 ish in dispute still (being unfair charges). I honestly don't want to give you hope on getting those knocked off through legal arguments at the moment, we really don't know and until the middle of February I can't see us having much more of an idea as to the chances of success of the other arguments and can completely understand u wanting this over with, cutting your losses with regards costs and settled down to paying your monthly installment to natwest and put it to the back of your mind. It is basically a question of having a read through some other peoples threads and seeing what you think and if you want to keep fighting them. Sorry I can't be more positive.
Did you mention before they were continuing to charge you £60 ish a month on the current account ?