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Mortgage out-of-term query!

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  • Mortgage out-of-term query!

    On 31 Oct 1996, we borrowed £65 000 over 25 years from Direct Line Mortgages (DL) on a repayment basis. When our mortgage lender became aware that we already had an existing endownment (£21 600 with Scottish Widows), DL suggested that £21 600, was being "paid twice", and so upon their advice, set it up so £21 600 was an interest only element with as far as I was concerned a 25 yr term. A few months later I do recall them contacting me about having the wrong date for the maturing of the endownment, but do not remember signing any paperwork (more about this event later).

    A few years later DL sent us a letter explaining that life cover was no longer mandatory only advisory for all mortgages, and it was at about this time that I started having problems with the endownment being predicted to have a shortfall and could get no help from the seller, however, that's a seperate matter possibly for another day. We were now also on benefits due to my wife's long-term ill health and I was no longer working, we were, and still are getting mortgage interest payments from the DWP.

    Coming forward to last summer (08), I contacted DL to inform them that the endownment was likely to be short by about £6-7000. DL appeared to be okay with this, informing me that if I wished I could make up the shortfall from savings or carry on paying as normal (interest-only) for whatever was the shortfall amount. The endownment maturity date passed and DL completed their annual review, 30 Sept 2008, without any reference made to it. In mid-november, months after maturity of endownment, I still had heard nothing from either Scottish Widows or DL, so I phoned DL to be informed that my endownment had not finished yet! Having put DL straight they finally received the endownment proceeds on 24 Dec 2008.

    Jan 09 a claim for the shortfall was made by DL upon which payment our deeds would be released! When I phoned to say that we had a repayment mortgage (approx £38 000) which still had another 12+ yrs to run they admitted it was a mistake, but did agree that as we had no savings, we were to carry on paying as normal, which we have done to date.

    A short while later we received a phonecall from DL insisting that part of our mortgage, approx £6 500, is out-of-term and the situation needs rectifying. We have repeatedly questioned this fact, by phone and in writing, believing that all the mortgage was over 25 years (2021), and keep being told that we signed (end of 1996) a document for this change, but they are unable, 'at present', to send us a copy of this paperwork, with still no reason why.

    An underlying problem to this situation is the DWP stance, who have informed me that they will look at any paperwork we sign before making a final decision, but are most likely to consider it a new mortgage and would stop paying us any mortgage interest at all immediately.

    This situation has appeared to have moved on, in june 08, a phone call from DL threatened to pass us to their legal services department, unless we pay this amount or sign new terms for it, and 11 Aug 08 we were given 14 days in writing before they pass it on.

    I am about to respond to DL to remind them that we are still waiting to see this paperwork, we are still paying and have never missed a payment to them and to remind them that my wife is long-term ill and is also having to receive councelling to deal with mental issues, which their pressure tactics are not helping.

    Thank you for your time in reading this, and can anybody help us achieve a resolution to this matter please?
    Last edited by andreas stahl; 14th August 2009, 14:23:PM. Reason: Was asked by team to give fuller explanation

  • #2
    Re: Mortgage out-of-term query!

    Further to my first posting, Direct Line are now advising us that they will be looking to recover the outstanding debt as they have lost patience with us in our continual refusal to sign new terms. DL are also, for the first time, have now stated in a phone call 22 Aug 09:
    "we are not obliged to keep paperwork any longer than 7 years, although that does not mean we don't have the paperwork you signed".

    We are still paying our mortgage, including this 'disputed' part.

    As anybody any ideas if what they are saying is true and what we should do next, thanks.
    Last edited by andreas stahl; 25th August 2009, 12:09:PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mortgage out-of-term query!

      I would send SAR to Direct Line which will get all the information they hold on you.

      If they are adamant you owe the money etc then let them prove it. They can't have their cake and eat it. Either they've got the proof/paperwork or they haven't. If they take you to court they will have to provide it. If they haven't got it, then they can't chase you for it, IMO, as they would look a bit stupid in court when the judge asked them to prove the case wouldn't they??.
      Is no longer here

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mortgage out-of-term query!

        I agree with the above - this is a complicated case and it seems that DL have made several errors over time. I would also be probing very hard to make sure you have been paying the right payments and that the debt has been calculated correctly. they do make mistakes. Normally it would be quite straight forward in that you would have your opening debt - interest only on the £25000 ( term does not make any difference on the interest only section ) and the balance on repayment. When the endowment was credited to the mortgage there would normally be a recalculation of the remaining debt over the remaining term of the mortgage.
        "What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

        "Always reach for the moon, if you miss you'll end up among the stars"


        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mortgage out-of-term query!

          They certainly do make mistakes - Natwest were crediting my mortgae paymets to the wrong sub accounts for over 12months and they never noticed till I rang up on an unrelated question and pointed it out to them! Definitley send a SAR, and ask them to confirm exactly what payments you ahve been paying etc. If needs be they will have to do a complete recalculation.

          Is the 6500 shortfall part of the 38k you mention,or in addition to it?
          What paperwork (if any) do you have

          If they can't find any paperwork, how do they know the mortgage is out of term? Or are they just making it up lol. Cos if they are so adamant that it is out of term, they must be able to show you how they came to that conclusion.
          Is no longer here

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mortgage out-of-term query!

            Thank you for your suggestion to use SAR, and would you believe it, but when I informed DL that this was our next move, the document to which they had been referring, they now claim that they do not actually have!!!
            I have requested to have this confirmed in writing and will post when it arrives.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mortgage out-of-term query!

              A BIG THANK YOU.
              I am pleased to say that DL have accepted that our mortgage still has a further 11 years to run and will be taking no further action, and that they have continued taking normal payments.
              I am very grateful for your helpful suggestions in achieving this successful result.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mortgage out-of-term query!

                Thanks so much for updating us and glad you have had a successful outcome.
                Perseverence often pays off.
                "What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

                "Always reach for the moon, if you miss you'll end up among the stars"


                Comment

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