spouse v rbs and dca

[jaybtee]

Help needed here.

About 6 years ago, while travelling in the USA, my other half had a £1000. o/d facilty with RBS. We monitored this online with digital banking.
My wife returned to the UK at the beginning of Feb 2004, and discovered several unopened letters from RBS.
One of these was a default notice issued as a result of not contacting them regarding our use of this facility.
A charge of £30 made for this letter.
Shortly after this with interest applied she went over by 19p Yes 19pence.
The bank were not interested in her explanation and set Unidebt on the case.
She has been paying the o/d regularly until last Jan 08 when Unidebt made her an offer she could refuse. At that point £570 pounds paid. We challenged them to provide statements showing payments made and interest charged.
Nothing happened until last week, when she received a letter from another DCA demanding over £1400. A bit of a steep cost of 19p over the agreed limit.
Any thoughts would be appreciated on what to do?

[LuggerBugs]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

Write to Unidebt telling them that since the supposed debt is the result of charges, which you dispute the validity of, their client RBS is unfairly attempting to collect a debt that would never have occured but for RBS's regime of unfair charges.

Tell them that should their client wish to proceed to court on this basis, you will be only too happy to discuss the legality or otherwise of their charges in front of a judge. Otherwise, you suggest that their client await the final outcome of the test case's appeals process before attempting any enforcement action whatsoever.

Have you actually disputed their charges in the past? Written evidence will back up your letter.

Worked for me. Here's the letter I sent their solicitors. Use, abuse, and adapt as needed.

I am afraid that I must inform you that this matter has been in dispute for some time now (letter attached), without reaching any form of resolution. As such, your client is in breach of OFT guidelines on debt collection by passing these accounts to you for collection. Note also, that your client has ignored my request to communicate only in writing; by repeatedly telephoning demanding payment on numerous occasions, the Royal Bank of Scotland is, in my opinion, guilty of criminal harassment. As per my enclosed letter, you should take note that I have indeed logged names, dates and times of telephone calls from your client in anticipation of any action that may prove necessary.

You should also note that I have previously indicated to your client, and have documentary evidence to show, my displeasure with the Royal Bank of Scotland’s charging regime, and have told your client in no uncertain terms that I would no longer be prepared to pay any further unfair charges that they may choose to levy on our accounts. Your client had, at that point, the option of either closing our accounts, or offering to suspend any possible future charges. They did neither, which is why I felt the need to take our banking business elsewhere, effectively closing our accounts.

In essence then, your client is attempting to recover a sum which has its basis purely in bank charges; charges which are currently the subject of an ongoing court case between your client and other banks, and the Office of Fair Trading.

As you will no doubt be aware, this means that I have as yet been unable to approach the Financial Ombudsman Service to arbitrate in this matter, as the Financial Services Authority has allowed the banks to defer complaints pending the outcome of the OFT v Banks test case. Neither have I had recourse to the courts to seek a resolution, as court cases relating to bank charges have, in the main, been stayed pending the outcome of the test case. You will also be aware that, whilst it has been ruled that bank charges may not constitute a penalty, the final outcome will in all likelihood mean that those charges may be assessed for fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations.

Notwithstanding, I should also point out to you that the very reason your client has levied charges in the first place is due to the incompetence they have shown in managing our accounts.

However, you should now be aware that I am of the opinion that, since your client has changed the goalposts by attempting recovery of this disputed sum, I am prepared to refer this matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service, as your client by initiating this action appear to have reached a final decision regarding my complaint.

You should also be aware that should your client choose to attempt to collect this disputed debt through the courts, I shall be only to pleased to ask them to justify their charges in that arena. I shall also be seeking to recover any payments already made as a result of their charging policy levied since their “goodwill gesture” previously, plus costs.

I would like to point out too, that should your client now attempt to sell on this disputed debt, in full knowledge that it is in dispute, as they have intimated in more than one phone call, I shall not only defend myself against any and all attempts to collect by any other party, but I shall also ensure that your client is brought into any action, whether that action is brought by myself or another party.

Finally, please note that I do not wish you to telephone me at all, and wish to communicate solely in writing. Email is more than acceptable.

I am now offering you the opportunity of referring this matter back to your client: If your client is prepared to cease all collection attempts, finally and without preconditions, I may be prepared to let the matter rest also. Otherwise I shall have no option other than to take the matter up in the first instance with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

As always, I hope that this matter may be resolved amicably. I look forward therefore to your early reply.

Regards,

[jaybtee]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

Thanks for that. The current DCA is Intrum Justitia. They are p***ing us off with there caling and nobody there approach.
Do they need a CCA request?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Too quick on the send button.
We have not challenged the charge as it was only £30. The consequence is much more serious.
Thanks

[Curlyben]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

CCA doesn't cover overdrafts, but a dispute notice with DON'T call does

Has the DCA explained how a £1,000 O/D has become a £1,400 debt ?!?!?!

Someone is extracting the urine here.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

In the same way as a few pence debt became nearly £4K in my case I'd imagine, CB.

What you need to do, if you haven't already, is complain to RBS about their charges. If you don't, any further dispute is meaningless. By the way you have described your problem, if there had never been the £30 charge, the debt would not have escalated the way it already has. Am I right so far?

I think it's important to let them understand too, that you are not contesting the overdaft itself, as this was something you had arranged. But you must also be firm that you will not tolerate the additional crap that they are expecting you to pay.

If I were you, I would also check that they haven't added penalties and charges in the past. Might that be a possibility? Have you SARd them for statements, or do you already have them?

[jaybtee]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

Hi Luggerbugs,
The intention is to challenge RBS on the charges, even though we dont know what the makeup is between interest and charges.
We will tell IJ to back off as the amount claimed is in dispute.
Any comments?

[jaybtee]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

Hi folks,
Just to give an update.
Sent letter to IJ and recorded delivery.
Also sent RBS Telford a letter asking for justification of the debt as suggested. She indicated that this had already been requested about one year ago and no reply.
She also included a £10 postal order and a formal request under the Data Protection Act for all info relating to this account.
Lets wait and see!
Incidentally, the numbers paid to RBS in my first cry for help were incorrect. She had in fact paid £640.
This makes the demand for £1400~ even more outrageous and increased her determination to meet them head-on.
Much has been said about the CCA and whether it applies here, but is it not the case that where credit is extended by a financial institution, then the CCA does apply? :rant:
Lets see what the postie brings:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[LuggerBugs]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

Not for overdrafts. I think you are challenging this the right way by going after them on the charges issue. You'd never be in this position otherwise. They know it, and in my experience, will eventually back down. I'll have a dig through my RBS paperwork and see if I can find a direct contact for you that might prove useful.

[jaybtee]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

Hi LuggerBugs,
Thanks for your encouragement. I think I will have plenty of time to consider my next move, while awaiting the response from the bank.
It is interesting that these days when the banks are all under the microscope, one has to reflect on all the enormous profits made in past years. Profits which to some extent will have included allowance for bad debt, certainly, but which have been enhanced by years of creative charging systems, to appear as an enhanced bottom line.
My son has an outstanding claim, on hold at this time, for charges made on his account over several years. On several occasions when a direct debit could not be paid, he was charged £30, the same day another dd refused, and another added to which a fee of, yes £30 for being over his agreed limit.
Total of £120 on a single day.
Does anyone wonder that the great British public has had enough?

[LuggerBugs]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

Here's the contact details of the person who finally decided to write off their ridiculous charges. In her letter she said, "I have Managerial responsibility for Customer Service issues within this Department of the Bank's Head Office."

So she sounds like somebody to write to that might actually do something. Hopefully.

Miss J Owen
The Royal Bank of Scotland
Credit Management Services
Kendal Court
Ironmasters Way
Telford
TF3 4DT

Direct Dial 01952 206053

I hope that helps.

[jaybtee]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

Thanks Luggerbugs, I will keep her up my sleeve at the moment. In the meantime any comments on my current situation as summerised below

I have received three letters from RBOS, two of which deal with the complaint made against the Bank which led to our current situation, and one from the DSAR dept.
The complaint letter is fairly standard stuff, I think and will no doubt eventually make out that the bank acted correctly and that I am the bad guy?
The DSAR I sent was unsigned and thay have indicated that they cannot proceed without a signature. They have offered me copy statements showing interest and charges if that would suffice? In which case my tenner would be returned.
I do not think this is what I should be satisfied with as the current situation is of their making, and would like to be able to refer to all correspondance, verbal or otherwise with RBOS and the DCA's?
Any suggestions on how to proceed?

[LuggerBugs]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

OO, OO. Hurry up and tell everybody. :tinysmile_aha_t:

[Tools]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

Developments?

[jaybtee]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

Hi everyone,
Events have overtaken my last post to the effect that I have received a letter from the complaints people at the bank.
In that they state that they have acted within the t&c's however all the charges should not have been made once the account had been handed to Telford for collection.
Interest was still chargeable.
However as they wish to bring the matter to a conclusion, all monies paid to date will satisfy the debt.

IE NOTHING MORE TO PAY

We want to thank all contributors on this forum who have helped especially luggerbugs.

Thanks guys

[Amethyst]

Re: spouse v rbs and dca

Thats good news. And as it should be. Well done