County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Budgie I have sent the paperwork to Ame now.

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

All received and looking at and forwarded on to Bud xx

[Budgie]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Hmmmm, they havent said on what grounds they have refused your hardship claim. Just that you dont meet their defintion. So what, it's the FSA definition that they should be concerned about.

I will have a chat with Amethyst offline, am not sure whether we should bring up the hardship issues / claim settlement as part of this current action to get the judgments sorted ) or whether you should pursue the claim via the FOS. The fact that the charges plus stat interest are nearly as much as the judgment against you is something I really think we should play on.

Will post again shortly.

Budgie

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

I think we get the claims stayed/struck first then bring in the claim directly to natwest to counter them reclaiming once these are struck out. If we dont get them struck then bring in the counterclaim on application.

But yes will talk offline.

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

You people on here are brill!!! You deserve a medal you really do! Thank you for helping me. xx

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Should have everything sorted for the morning honey xx We can but try our best

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

IRWIN MITCHELL - letters forms and WS need to be primarily from your Husband

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION UNDER THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES.

Dear Sir/Madam,

You will be aware that you currently have a Judgement against me Claim No XXXXX in the XXXXXXXXXXXX county court. There is a hearing due to apply a charging order on my property in respect of this Judgement on Tuesday XX December 2008.

I will require this information within the next ten days. I must advise you that I have applied to the court for a stay on proceedings, and it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to strike out this claim as bought in error. It has come to my attention that your client, National Westminster, has allowed both yourselves and Shoosmiths Solicitors to claim in court for repayment of the same debt. This as you will be aware is contrary to civil procedure rules and the OFT debt collection guidance 664 updated June 2008.

I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

1. With regards to the Loan reference XXXXXXXXXXXXXX I require a true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. With regards the Loan reference xxxxxxxxxxxxx and Overdraft account number xxxxxxxxxxx I require all records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:
a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to it the account.
b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations
c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with Natwest.
d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.
e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).
f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.
g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.
h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.
i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998
j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.
4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.
5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt, and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.


I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I await your rapid response.

Yours Faithfully,

IRWIN MITCHELL and COURT with EX160 or Fee
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c...rms/n244_e.pdf

3: I,the Defendant, wish to apply for a stay in this claim pending further information from the claimant. However, It has recently come to my attention that that this claim number 8Xxxxxxx is a duplicate of claim number 8Qxxxxxx as both relate to the same debt with National Westminster Bank Plc and as such should be set aside. I have requested further information under CPR 18 from the claimants as evidence of this fact and respectfully ask the court stay the pending hearing due on XX December 2008 with regards a charging order on my property.

4:No

5:Without a Hearing

6: Ignore

7: XX December 2008

8: District Judge

9: Claimant/Natwest

10: Attatched Witness statement

WITNESS STATEMENT to send with N244 form

National Westminster Bank Plc
claimant
-AND-

HUSBAND
defendant

WITNESS STATEMENT

OF Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxtt

I, Lxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxtt of xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx will say as follows:-

1.I am the Defendant in this case.

2.I make this Witness Statement from information and facts within my own knowledge and which I believe to be true.

3.I make this Witness Statement in relation to redetermination of a county court Judgement reference claim number 8xxxxxxxx.

4. This Judgement relates to a debt with National Westminster Bank plc for which I am jointly liable with my wife Mrs xxxxxxxxxx being a joint personal loan and a joint current account overdraft.

5. At the time of default - 28th March 2008 - the total owing to National Westminster Bank Plc is £2448.59 for Loan account number 50XX300XX27X11, and £3797.64 for an overdraft on current account number XX47X66X held with the National Westminster Bank Plc. The total debt is £6246.23. This is detailed on the attached default notices.

6. Both of these accounts were held jointly by myself, Mrs Axxxxx and my wife Mrs LXX XXXt.

7: On 28th March 2008 I received default notice (attached) for loan reference xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and overdraft reference xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. The accounts appear to have been passed to two seperate collections agencies (solicitors) for collection.

7. On 20/06/2008 I, Mrs L XXXt, received a claim form from Northampton Bulk Processing Centre dated 20th June 2008 for the debt detailed in paragraph 5(above) Claim number 8Qxxxxxx. The claim was bought by Irwin Mitchell Solicitors. Please see appendix 1a.

8. I entered an admission on 23/07/2008 for the full amount and made an offer to pay of £25.00 per calendar month.

9. With reference to claim number 8Qxxxxxx The District Judge sitting at Northampton county court on 23/07/2008 made the following orders

Judgement entered against the defendant on 23/07/2008 for payment of £25 pcm or £6623.29 payable forthwith.

The Defendant has been making payments of £25 pcm to the claimant.


10: On or around 15/06/2008 my wife Mrs xxxxxxxx received a claim from Northampton Bulk Processing Centre dated 13th June 2008 for the debt detailed in paragraph 5 (above) Claim number 8X. The claim was bought by Shoosmiths Solicitors. (Appendix 2a)

11: On or around 20/6/2008 the Defendant entered an admission for the full amount.

12: The District Judge sitting at Northampton county court on 17/07/2008 made the following orders
Judgement entered against the defendant for £6536.23 payable forthwith including costs.

13. A redetermination hearing was held on XX November 2008 for claim 8XXXXX where the District Judge sitting at XXXXX county court on made an order to pay £25 per month. The Defendant has been making these payments.

14: It is my contention that this claim number 8Qxxxxxx is a duplicate of claim number 8Xxxxxxx as both relate to the same debt with National Westminster Bank Plc (detailed in paragraph 5 above) and as such should be set aside.

15: As defendant I have requested further information under CPR 18 from the Claimant (attached) in order to show this is the only debt I have with National Westminster bank and respectfully ask the court that the claim be stayed in order for the Claimant to provide this information prior to obtaining a final charging order on my property.

COVERING LETTER TO COURT - attach Part 18, N244, witness statement and copy of documents (as previous witness statement with addition of copy of default notices from Natwest

Dear Sirs

Please find enclosed an application to apply a stay to this claim and supporting documentation for the attention of District Judge XXXXXXXXXX prior to the hearing for claim reference XXXXXXX to be held on XXXXX December 2008 between Natwest and myself.

These documents have also been sent to the Claimants.

Yours faithfully

HUSBAND

COVERING LETTER TO IRWIN MITCHELL - attach Part 18, N244 copy, witness statement copy and copy of documents (as previous witness statement with addition of copy of default notices from Natwest)

Dear Irwin Mitchell/Natwest

CLAIM REFERENCE XXXXXXXX

For your urgent attention please find attached formal request for information under Civil Prodecure Rules Part 18.

Please find enclosed copies of application to stay this claim, witness statement and documentation that has been submitted to the XXXXXXXXXXX County Court for the attention of the District Judge sitting at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx County Court.

Your sincerely

HUSBAND

So to COURT

Covering Letter
N244
Witness Statement
EX160
Copy of Part 18 request
Supporting documents (as per previous WS with addition of default notices)




CHECK FIGURES on Witness Statement in para 5 match those on Default Notices.


This is to apply for a stay on the claim from Irwin Mitchell whilst you get the information in order to strike out the claim. The Judge in your Shoosmiths hearing indicated it would not be struck out with the relevant info.

We'll send same Part 18 to Shoosmiths (slightly amended) and ask them not to apply for charging order.

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

You are a little darling, you have been busy. Should the court letters be hand delivered or is there time to post them? Is there anything else I need to do? xxx

[Budgie]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Excellent work Amethyst - Well done XX

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Does the fact that they cant find a signed agreement for when the current account was converted to an Advantage Gold account have any bearing on anything?

Also what is the fee to apply for a stay?

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

£35.00 should be, though you could be exempt if you wantred to do the EX160

Not sure that the switch from normal to advantage account will have any bearing, although if you are paying a monthly fee you may be able to reclaim that if its not something you asked for.


Outline for letter to natwest

Account defaulted - passed to two seperate agencies for collection - contrary to ref OFT 664 rules re debt collection (enclose completed complaint form to OFT) and CPR 35 splitting claims. Additonally account put in dispute on 28th April prior to court claims being instigated. Set aside both judgements, account still in dispute and applying for charges under hardship rules, any claim against joint parties entered in court for the overdraft part of the debt will be subject to a counterclaim for charges. Offer to continue paying £25 a month. Possibly indicate accept charging order for loan debt ?

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

The outline for the letter to NW seems fine. Do you think its the best thing to do to go for the charging order?
If i send in the EX160 will it hold anything up (with regards to them sorting out a stay on the hearing next week) or am i better sending in the fee and trying to claim it back?

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

To be honest i'm not sure I have never used it personally - it may hold things up and as you are need of speed if you possibly can pay it upfront then yes I would do it that way.

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Thank you, figures altered and fee enclosed and soon to be on its way. xx

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Cool.

Letter to Natwest - Work in progress



Dear Natwest

Re: Current Account XXXXXXXXXXXXX and Loan Account XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I am writing regarding legal action that has been taken on your behalf by Shoosmiths Solicitors and Irwin Mitchell in reference to collection of the debts on the above accounts.

Both of these accounts are held in joint names, being MR XXXXXxx and MRS XXXXXxx of ADDRESS, and we are jointly liable for the resultant debt.

You will be aware that we were notified of both accounts being defaulted on 27th March 2008. The overdraft on my personal current account xxxxxxxxxx had a balance of £2444.35. The personal loan account xxxxxx had an outstanding balance of £3819.33. The total debt to your bank being £6263.68.

ON XXXXXXXX Mr XXXXX received a county court claim for collection of both accounts from Irwin Mitchell. Claim reference XXXXXX. An admission and offer to pay was submitted, and judgement was given for installment payments of £25 per calendar month, which have been being made by way of xxxxxxxxxxx.

On XXXXXXXX Mrs XXXXXXX received a further county court claim for collection of the same accounts from Shoosmiths solicitors. Claim reference XXXXX. Being unaware of how these things work at that time, Mrs XXXXXX also entered an admission to the court, and this has subsequently gone to judgement for the full amount to be paid at installments of £20 per month.

I am now aware that for Natwest to claim for the same debt in full against us both is CONTRARY TO County courts Act 1984 and OFT debt collection guidance. I believe we are jointly and serverably liable for the debts and as such either you should have claimed against us jointly for the total debt, or split the debt equally between us both.

I am now facing a charging order on my home from Irwin Mitchell solicitors on your behalf for a total of £6XXX, and additionally Shoosmiths solicitors have indicated their intention to apply for a further charge over my home for the same debt for a total of £6XXX. This will leave us with second charges on our home to your benefit of £12XXX.

We have applied to stay proceedings in Claim XXXXX bought by Irwin Mitchell solicitors pending compliance with a part 18 request for information.

We expect you to act promptly to rectify this situation in agreeing to setaside the second claim XXXXXXX bought by Shoosmiths solicitors and take steps to amend the first claim bought by Irwin Mitchell solicitors to be against us both jointly.

We also have a further issue, in that on 28th April 2008, we indicated our intention to apply for a refund of unfair charges levied to our personal current account number XXXXXXXXx between XXXXXXXXXXx and XXXXXXXXXXXX at a total of £4XXXX plus interest of £XXXX. This claim was entered in the court on XXXXXXX and is currently subject to a stay pending the outcome of the test case. We have applied to you for consideration of an interim refund under the FSA waiver terms regarding financial difficulty.

We understand that you have acted contrary to FSA guidelines and the Banking code in bringing this claim against us whilst aware of a formal dispute on the account, and whilst the claim is stayed at court.

We also at this time indicate our intention to apply to the court to amend our defence on the Irwin mitchell claim and issue a counterclaim in respect of the amount owing due to unfair overdraft fees.

We would appreciate a full investigation etc etc





VERY VERY ROUGH for an idea of what to say......help appreciated