Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

[Nibbler]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

They said the other debt was added by Lowells afterwards.

Perhaps something they acquired in the interim?

Would be provable against the estate if it was valid, even if not on the original petition or BRs PIQB

[Crazy council]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

depending on who your trustees is

this is a version of rules he has to follow

http://www.icaew.com/en/technical/in...e-sips-england

SIP 9 is probebly the one you need to read at this stage

[Hopfarm]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

Something odd here.

what was the total debit registered with the OR at the meeting.
What is the name of the trustee
When I had my Or meeting they were aware of the first Lowell debt ( which forced the bankruptcy) I had previously spoken to the or and explained that due to a house fire then I had lost any historical paperwork on any other possible debts ,they advised me to check my credit report and any other debts would be listed on it . I did this and provided the or with a list of debts that totalled approx £12,000.

Did the OR offer to deal with it any othere way
She asked if I could pay off the debts (£12,000 worth) I said I should be able to and she suggested Summers nigh could help . I wasn't given any other option ,I thought it was strange because none of my paperwork (bank statements ,wage slips ,soa were checked)


How much total have you paid off the debits registered with the OR or trustee.
I paid £12,000 and a £9000 ppi claim went directly to the or .
Are your kids ( dependants ( under 16 )
Yes11,14and 15
Do you have any idea of teh trustees fees so far.
In March last year it was £25,000

I have been through your situation, but just before the rule change ( you now get 2.2 years with the OR ).

Need to understand the following

Amount outstanding on OR form will confirm
Amount paid off that
charges imposed
Name of trustee or firm rsm tenon

was the other claim on the OR claim, or afterwards ? Wasn't aware of anymore debts until the trustee became involved ( they were not registered on my credit report until post br)

How much equity in your property after morgaee approx £150,000
how much of that is your split

50% share

[Crazy council]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

looks like your trustees firm got in trouble with debt and had to be sold last year

http://www.insolvencynews.com/articl...-pre-pack-deal

I wander if they have all the paperwork correct. With trustees fees of £ 25k and over, you can ask for a breackdown, and you can formall challange there fees ( i did this successfully ) , using the rules in sip that i pointed to.

Did you do a plan with with the firm the OR pointed you to.

and

Do you know witch one of the regulators your trustee is under ( what firm is he registered with )

[righty]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

Knowing Lowells (and some Trustees) I suspect this debt may be time-barred. What is it & when did you last make a payment??

[Hopfarm]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

Im not even sure what the debt is for , I requested proof but have never received anything, I assumed (foolishly ) that the figure confirmed with the or would be the final figure.

[Hopfarm]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

I have not heard anything from the trustee since March last year and the bill was £25,000 then so goodness knows what it is now . Summers nigh didn't discuss any plans with me ,I never even met them ,everything was done by email and all they really did was confirm outstanding debts which I paid direct to the companies involved.
In march last year the letter came from rsm tenon.

[meellis]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

Even though lowells debt has contributed to the overall bankruptcy estate the important bit at the moment is to contest the actual sale. With the amount paid against the overall debt and costs, not including the £7k extra, there is a shortfall. As we all have found out questioning the debt in front of a judge doesn't get you anywhere so a plan is needed to get time and info. If you can make the home safe you then need the info to challenge the debt. It sounds as though the management company should have cleared the debts and got the bankruptcy overturned.

[Crazy council]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

Right

Your going to need to get these immedeatly.

1. Full statment of debt off the Or
2. Full statment of Debit off the trustee that was registered
3. Who your trustee is ( name ) and who his regulator is ( there is three, as them )

Phone them both get them to emial you these immedeatly. Do not take any excuses, record your phone calls and say at the begining of the call that your recording it.

DO THIS NOW. Will need to see exactly what the registered debits were.

[righty]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

State at the END of the call you HAVE recorded otherwise say nothing about recording it It's not illegal to record a call without the other party knowing but you would have to ask the courts permission to present it as evidence

[Nibbler]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

Knowing Lowells (and some Trustees) I suspect this debt may be time-barred. What is it & when did you last make a payment??

Would be interesting to see, since from OR's guidance.

40.95 Stature barred debts not provableA debt that is statute-barred (see paragraph 40.11) cannot be a provable debt [note 37] [note 38].

40.13 Effect of non-provable debts The exclusion by law of claims from proof means there is no relief for the debtor, who cannot avoid these debts by becoming bankrupt. These liabilities are not released on discharge. A creditor in respect of a non-provable debt cannot participate in the winding- up or bankruptcy proceedings or share in any dividend paid.

Whether that completely prevents a trustee from acting I would not like to 100% say, but it sounds as if not.

Can ask.

[righty]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

if the debt is time barred at the time or before bankruptcy it can & should be rejected by the Trustee

[righty]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

And if its NOT a debt subject to deed (TL 12 years) and the Trustee accepted they have been negligent

[Crazy council]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

A little bit of my experience tro add here.

The one thing that you have to keep in the back of your mind is that they don't really want your home and the hassles of selling it,

They do, because the costs and charges of sale are removed from the estate before the others get deducted, so any costs charged for the sale WILL DEFFINATLY GET PAID, hence, its worth while them doing it.

Trustees application of the laws are guided by rules ( poimnted to them erliyer ) and a code of ethics. The are very detailed and lock down a trustees action,

The bankrupt can make an application to the court, independent of the bankruptcy, to challenge the trustees fees and behaviour. In 2009/10 these rules were tightened in favour of the debtor. ( i will dig out the exact order later, i did this ). The trustee now needs to prove the value of his work, not just the charges.

Do you realise that the trustee has to do this, becuase if not, your house will revert back to you next year ( 2015 ). Dont think that you can make that happen, am just explaining so you understand that the judges hands will be tied on giving you more time.

List the forms i asked you and will give you some proper advice.

You also need to instruct the trustee to varify the disputed debt. You may be able to protect yourself against an order of sale, depending on ALL THE CURCS, but you are at a very very very late stage,

[Crazy council]

Re: Very confused - Bankrupt - trustee applying to reposess home - HELP

http://www.9stonebuildings.com/publi...neration.shtml

The regime contained in the Insolvency Act 1986 (1986 Act) and the Insolvency Rules 1986[1] (“Rules”) provides for the remuneration of a trustee in bankruptcy to be set by the creditors.[2] One unheralded amendment contained in the Insolvency (Amendment) Rules 2010[3] (“2010 Amendments”) is the introduction of a right for the bankrupt to challenge his trustee’s remuneration under an amended r.6.142(1).[4] Previously, only creditors could apply and such an application needed the support of 25 per cent of the creditors by value. The new version of r.6.142(1) expands and liberalises the position:
“Any secured creditor, or any unsecured creditor with either the concurrence of at least 10% in value of the creditors (including that creditor) or the permission of the court, or the bankrupt [emphasis added] may apply to the court…”
If the court considers an application made under r.6.142(1) to be well founded, then it may (inter alia) reduce the trustee’s remuneration.[5] The decision to give specific locus standi to bankrupts to apply against trustees concerning remuneration is entirely new and seems to have been introduced with very little comment.[6] Prior to the 2010 Amendments, bankrupts had not had any specific right to be involved in the setting of their trustee’s remuneration since s.82(2) of the Bankruptcy Act 1914 (“1914 Act”) was repealed by the introduction of the 1986 Act. That is not to say that the bankrupt was necessarily without a remedy because he could apply under the general jurisdiction to control trustees. However, the bankrupt could only apply under this jurisdiction where he could show a direct personal interest in the level of remuneration, which was a high hurdle.

that page explainsa it better than i could. i used this challange. I had to argue ( suscessfully ) , that the trustees fees ( not cost of bankruptyc like OR ect ), should not be part of the inital calculation of the remaining asset.

Ie, Add your morgaee, all bankruptcy debts, or court fees together. If you are left with any asset, you get a say over the trustees actions ( 10% minimum ) . The more assit you have, trhe more controll, If your asset left, is more than the highest creditor, the trustee can not stop the application. ( my asset was more tan 10* this )

Whats really interesting about this, is that the regulations say, the trustees charges must represent value to the estate for the charge.

IE. I was probebly getting charges 900 per hour ( 500 trustee , 250 trustees pa, 150 secutery ). The order above ( if the trustees charges are over 20k i think ). allows you to protect your own estate against trustees charging £ 500 per hour for writing you a letter.