Warning of a Bankruptcy Petition in a week time - Please help

[Ogo]

Re: Warning of a Bankruptcy Petition in a week time - Please help

Your friends prospects for appeal are absolutely zero. All he will achieve is further costs. Sorry x

I set aside bankruptcy applications every day. The normal costs for making/defending such an application is £2-3000. So when we say the Judge was being kind, we really mean it. £100 is practically unheard of for a barrister contested hearing.

I think the fact that they were greedy in trying for £13k helped your friend out a lot, but he's survived that hearing...he won't survive the next.

I do sympathise, I lost a huge case against Lloyds for my sister 2 years ago. We had to pay £11k within 14 days of the Order. Our anger and frustration was monumental, but we knew when we were beaten and could not afford to fight on, despite having some grounds for appeal ironically.

Unfortunately, not having taken decent legal advice is not a valid defence. The legal system can and often is highly unfair with bizarre outcomes, but do not underestimate how something small can quickly run out of control.

Could you let me know why you came to the conclusion that his prospect of appeal is zero despite what he has provided to demonstrate that his case was never tested and also the cost of schedule appeared (if hearing lasted less than one hour) never to have been examined by the court?

It was not clear whether you were making reference to statutory demand or Bankruptcy Petition when you stated it cost up to £3k for making and defending it. Are you saying that there is nothing like proportionality and reasonableness in costs no matter the value of the case?

Don't you think your comment that he wont survive the next hearing without you providing any further details clarification unfair?

It would have been good to have shed some light with your sister's case so that the experience can be related to this reported on this thread.

Paragraphs 17 and 18 of his witness statement, which you can find at post number 9, made reference to his legal rep. Going by that witness statement paragraphs 18 to 21 appeared to suggest that dispute arose because he signed documents where no written words were made to the rear garden but reference to a plan that was not provided to him. That omitted plan from the document he was given to sign appeared to contain the fact in which he must have waived his right to the rear garden.

[Ogo]

Re: Warning of a Bankruptcy Petition in a week time - Please help

Do you know when your friend became aware there was an application for a charging order over his property? ( was this just prior to the Stat Demand being issued ?)

Did he attend this hearing and if so what happened?

He said he became aware of charging order over his property in March 2014 which was after he had been served the statutory demand in February 2014.

He said he attended the hearing. He said the court ordered that the property stand charged with payment as in the order or judgment of 16 September 13.

[Amethyst]

Re: Warning of a Bankruptcy Petition in a week time - Please help

The issue with the land is separate to the costs issue. The Charging Order and Stat Demand are on the Costs issue.

It appears he may have been 'done over' with regards the deal with the property and garden, but that issue should have been dealt with separately. That he didn't realise he had by all accounts sold his rights to the garden shouldn't have tried to be dealt with by way of an injunction against his neighbours. It was misconceived and that is why there are the costs. Once you have costs ordered against you you must deal with them, unless you appeal the costs order directly.

He has been aware of the costs since, it now appears, February 2014. It is the end of July now. Has he not sought any advice in the meantime?

He has argued his case at a directions hearing, a charging order hearing and a set aside stat demand hearing and lost. The bankruptcy hearing isn't going to go any differently. The costs have been ordered and are owed and he must pay them.

Cel's sisters case was entirely different and related to debt issues, however the point she was trying to make, was although they felt hard done by and that the court was wrong, they had the costs order and had to pay it regardless of any further action. They realised any further action would pretty much wipe them out and the risk of further costs too great, so they took a step back and looked at the bigger picture.

The point is arguing against a costs order is difficult and expensive. That he was poorly advised (or not advised) at the time is sadly neither here nor there, and whether he could make a case on the land issues is again, neither here nor there.

If he wants to fight back against the loss he made on selling the property then he needs to take all his documents and the contracts/deeds etc to a solicitor who specialises in property, and consider his options from there.

For now though if he does not pay the costs or make some agreement to get them paid he will be made bankrupt.

[Amethyst]

Re: Warning of a Bankruptcy Petition in a week time - Please help

He said he became aware of charging order over his property in March 2014 which was after he had been served the statutory demand in February 2014.

He said he attended the hearing. He said the court ordered that the property stand charged with payment as in the order or judgment of 16 September 13.

On this, the interim charge and subsequent final charge will be to protect the other side against him disposing of the assets before bankruptcy, ie if he sold the property before hand they would get paid (after any mortgage).

[Ogo]

Re: Warning of a Bankruptcy Petition in a week time - Please help

Thank you.

I have read all you have said regarding that he must make payment otherwise he would be made bankrupt. So I would think he has been seeking to get money to make payment hence my knowledge about his problem. He told me that he has made offer of installment to be completed within two years which he said was refused by the solicitor. However, he said the solicitor said whilst the full payment remain due as a matter of days he would accept payment paid over five times no less than £750 every month with the first due according to my understanding on the eve of the due date which is a matter of days. That if he accepted this alternative arrangement, which is without prejudice, any failure for him to honour subsequent set time payment for each of the schedule date and time over the next four months would automatically lead to issuance of a Bankruptcy petition without any further notice.

So what I am asking now is assistance on what forumers think would be proper grounds of appeal and good reasons from the evidence I have provided to demonstrate the court's discretion to accept his application out of time. I would be pleased if assistance is focused on this aspect of appeal as he made it absolutely clear to me that he wanted to remove the issue of the bankruptcy over his head before having to appeal. Having noted what you guys have said that the injunction was misconceived, I think it would be good for his appeal to be properly done so that it would not be said it was misconceived.

I cannot stop him from appealing as I have not seen any evidence that the English Courts have no discretion to extend time for appeal in special circumstances. So I could only provide ideas to him (since I cannot help him financially on the payment issue) for him to consider should he be advised that is what he wanted to do at a latter date after so as to possibly improve his chances of an appeal. Perhaps had he informed me last year I could have done what I am doing and possibly recommended to him that an injunction was not the proper forum to resolve the dispute. But common sense would tell me that any fair judicial system would have reserved the cost of the injunction hearing and transfer the case to the Chancery List at the Central London County Court that I think normally deal on cases like that.

[Amethyst]

Re: Warning of a Bankruptcy Petition in a week time - Please help

I don't think he should appeal. I think, if he did anything, it would be to bring a new case, against the freeholder for the issues with the contract and the loss caused by it. However he MUST get a decent property solicitor to go through the documents he signed and get proper advice.

This injunction/costs issue is done with, the injunction was misconceived and it wasn't the issues that were tried, only whether an injunction and damages was the appropriate relief required, and at that time, without having sorted out the issues with the contract, there was nothing to injunct against.

Hopefully you see what I'm saying, if he can show that he was misled with regards the reorganisation of the properties he may have a case for some sort of compensation, but it is a long shot and shouldn't be entered into lightly. He ''only'' lost £20k and it has cost him £4k already, almost cost him £18k and if he can't get the negotiations to stave off bankruptcy it could still cost him his house.

Just my thoughts, I don't think I can help much further I'm afraid.

[Ogo]

Re: Warning of a Bankruptcy Petition in a week time - Please help

Thank you for your time and effort.

He said he took injunction to starve of repossession of the property by the Bank at the time. He said had he delayed selling by two days when he did the property would have been repossessed. He was advised that injunction could put the status quo in place pending the final determination of the hearing. He said that was why the injunction was made on notice to the neighbours.

I spoke to him a moment ago and he told me that he would consider one of these Pay Day loan companies as he gave his best installment already which was refused and does not know how to meet the arrangement suggested by the Defendant's solicitor.

In the absence of any evidence that the Court does not have discretion to grant him permission to appeal out of time, it is my opinion an appeal appeared to be his best chance to starve the Bankruptcy Petition. But I think what I require to help him would have been good grounds of appeal properly couched and providing good reasons why the court should exercise extension of time, This would give him more time to seek financial assistance.

[stevemLS]

Re: Warning of a Bankruptcy Petition in a week time - Please help

People have said time and again that they can't see any grounds to appeal.

The normal time limit to lodge an appeal is 21 days, you are so far outside that limit as to make it in my view absolutely no prospect of extending the time limit to bring you back in order.

You have the hurdle of gaining permission, you cannot appeal without it. Permission can be granted by the trial judge or by the Court of Appeal if the lower court refuses permission.

However, they are prohibited from granting permission unless the appellant shows that they have a real prospect of success. In my view, you will fail to get permission.

At risk of being repetitious any future proceedings would be throwing good money after bad.

Sorry to be blunt but you do not seem to be hearing the advice many have given.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Warning of a Bankruptcy Petition in a week time - Please help

I spoke to him a moment ago and he told me that he would consider one of these Pay Day loan companies as he gave his best installment already which was refused and does not know how to meet the arrangement suggested by the Defendant's solicitor.

Apologies for sticking my oar in, but I wouldn't recommend this course of action to anyone. Payday lenders are very good at making it all look very easy and friendly, what with their 'sunny' rates and all that... :mmph: but when it comes to the crunch and the charges start to mount up, along with the threats and harassment, most end up regretting their decision. :Cry: