Court orders vs Bankruptcy

[DCASTLE]

I posted a question here a month ago regarding recovering my legal costs from someone who took me to court and lost his case in the end.

A member here suggested me to use HCEO to recover my legal costs. But after doing some research on HCEO, I am a bit concerned about what they can do for me.

Anyway, I found some information on the gov.uk website saying bankruptcy can write off most debts, but not student loans, mortgage payments, court orders, etc..

I asked my solicitor to clarify if it was true that the court orders could not be written off. My solicitor told me that was not true.

If that is the case, why would the gov.uk website mention court orders cannot be written off by bankruptcy?

I just wonder if anyone here knows more about court orders and bankruptcy please.

Many thanks!

[atticus]

Your solicitor is correct.

The gov.uk site may have been referring to court orders in matrimonial cases. Without seeing the exact wording of the page you were looking at I cannot comment further.

Why are you not taking your solicitor's advice about possible enforcement steps?

[DCASTLE]

Thanks for clarifying the situation.

It was a member here suggesting to use HCEO. I did ask my solicitor about the HCEO option but he didn't make any comments about it.

I guess possibly it is to do with the fact that someone else also got involved in the case. The claimant was suing me and two other people. I fell out with the two people a big time (about money) in the past, so they hired their own solicitor and I hired mine.

My solicitor mentioned to me a couple of times that the other defendants cannot go ahead and do something without I agree to it. The same applies to me. I believe it has made the situation more difficult and complicated.

[PallasAthena]

Out of curiousity I looked up gov.uk. 'Guide to Bankruptcy' and found the advice below which is a little different to what you quoted.

Guide to Bankruptcy - GOV.UK

7.2 What happens to your debts

You'll be freed from your debts once your bankruptcy has ended, except for:

• debts gained by fraud
• money owed under family proceedings (maintenance and lump sum settlements)
• damages payable to anyone for personal injuries
• student loans
• court fines
• debts created after the bankruptcy order

[DCASTLE]

Thanks for your comment, much appreciated.

This is what I was reading before.

https://insolvencyservice.blog.gov.u...R_ALL_MY_DEBTS

7. Being bankrupt will clear all my debts

True and False

Most, but not all debts will not have to be paid by you after bankruptcy. Debts that you will still have to pay include:

• student loans
• child maintenance arrears
• court orders (e.g., compensation payments, divorce payments)
• criminal fines
• debts due to fraud
• any debts taken out after the bankruptcy order is made

[DCASTLE]

Hello all

I have just asked my solicitor once again if I can use HCEO to recover some money for me. And now my solicitor has replied and said, how realistic is it that the claimant has sufficient assets that can be removed that are worth the total amount of the debt?

I don't quite understand what he means.

Sorry to be the thickest person in the planet, does the HCEO only take valuable assets? Can they seize the property at all?

The money that I need to recover is over £130K, I don't think the claimant has any physical assets that are worth £130K except his house.

[PallasAthena]

The HCEO has to turn seized assets into cash which means selling at auction. Often the things an HCEO can seize will bring in very little money at auction so they will be reluctant to take anything not readily sellable. They also can't seize property if there is a finance agreement on it (ie the debtor doesn't own it, it's owned by the finance company). I think that's what your solicitor has in mind.

If the programmes on the TV are anything to go by HCEOs are more likely to use threat of seizure (and the inconvenience that causes to the debtor) as a lever to get them to pay up in cash.

There's some general information on what can be seized here:

What are the powers of a High Court Enforcement Officer? - Court Enforcement Services

[islandgirl]

Put a charging order on the house?

[DCASTLE]

I see, thanks for clarifying what my solicitor said.

If that is the case, would a Charging Order against the property be my next best option? Seeing I am not going to recover the amount of money that the judge has ordered the claimant to pay.

I think the whole thing is wrong. I was wrongly accused and the guy just would not drop the case against me even my solicitor explained very clearly to him why he didn't have a case. My solicitor and I tried our best to minimise the costs but the guy just would not listen. And now he lost his case and he won't pay for his foolish action. Where is justice?

[islandgirl]

I used High Court Enforcement for a debt (much smaller than yours probably but still an amount I was not prepared to lose). They managed to get a regular £100 a month payment out of the debtor but I also separately put a charging order on the house. When he wanted to sell it the remaining debt was paid in full.

[DCASTLE]

I used High Court Enforcement for a debt (much smaller than yours probably but still an amount I was not prepared to lose). They managed to get a regular £100 a month payment out of the debtor but I also separately put a charging order on the house. When he wanted to sell it the remaining debt was paid in full.

Thank you!

For some reasons I didn't think what HCEO can do and cannot do.

The claimant owes over £260K on the legal costs in total. I should have known HCEO is not the right option.

Having said that I am surprised the claimant hasn't declared bankrupt by now. It seems to me he doesn't want to go bankrupt but he also doesn't want to pay the money, even in instalments.

[PallasAthena]

I'm not saying you shouldn't send in an HCEO but unless he owns lots of valuables, and after taking into account that HCEO can't seize stuff owned by a finacing/leasing company such as the car he says is leased, nor can they seize property that his wife can prove is owned by her, don't expect what they can seize to cover much of the £130,000. But you may feel something is better than nothing.

And with your 'justice' comment in mind you might feel that if he's left sitting on the floor in a furnitureless house with just his underpants to wear that would serve him right even if it gained you little cash. (Actually HCEOs can't seize every stick of furniture and all his clothes but can make life uncomfortable for him)

[DCASTLE]

I'm not saying you shouldn't send in an HCEO but unless he owns lots of valuables, and after taking into account that HCEO can't seize stuff owned by a finacing/leasing company such as the car he says is leased, nor can they seize property that his wife can prove is owned by her, don't expect what they can seize to cover much of the £130,000. But you may feel something is better than nothing.

Totally understand, and thanks for the input.

To be honest, I don't know if it should also go bankrupt as well. How am I supposed to pay off over £100K debts after all?

[atticus]

If you yourself have debt issues, take advice from StepChange or a debt adviser at Citizens Advice.

Do not contact one of the sharks who peddle IVAs.

[DCASTLE]

Hello all

Sorry for a last minute message, just managed to get hold of my solicitor and he agreed to discuss my case in an hour.

Here I think my options are:

1. Accept the settlement offer from the claimant. The offer covers less than 40% of my legal costs.
2. Make the claimant bankrupt. He claims he only owns a house (mortgage free) with his wife, he has no other asset. I don't know if he is telling the truth or not.
3. Charging Order to his property, again his wife will take a half of the property value once it is sold. The property is estimated between £325K and £375K.

None of these options is good to me, but I do need to instruct my solicitor what to do next unfortunately.

Any suggestions or comments are much appreciated. Thanks!