Marstons trying to force door open

[hammermitch]

This is posted as a problem for a relative, they have just informed me that marstons called at their address looking for their son who owed a court fine, they explained that he did not live at that address and closed the door, the property in question has a porch and the outside door was open however the fron door to the property was closed, after closing the door, the Bailiff continued to bang loudly on the glass of the door and was even seen to be attempting to force the door open!!

This is the very first contact this person has had with Marstons, no letters and no other contact, the bailiffs were also seen to be looking around the property and even looking at upstairs windows, this is after they was told the person does not live there.

a complaint has been made to Marston, but was just wondering if this seems to be an old debt when the person did live at the address, and as such is there time limits as to how long Marstons can pursue the debt before it is passed back to court, or any time limits concerning bailiffs and pursuing the debtor?

Also is it reasonable to assume that Marston have people veiw the threads on here and other forums?

any help much appreciated

[Milo]

Re: Marstons trying to force door open

You say that the visit was the first contact that a relative had with Marston's and that they had received no letters or other contact. It is possible that Marston's have used their tracing facility to find an alternative address and this is perfectly legal. HMCTS' position is that debtors subject to a fine for a criminal offence should ensure that they advise the court of a change of address.

With court fines there is a legal right to force entry and whilst this option is not pursued often it nonetheless does exist. Furthermore, a bailiff does NOT need to have a separate warrant given that the 'power' to force entry comes from the warrant of control that he is enforcing.

A court fine is not subject to the Statute of Limitations Act and in most cases if the warrant cannot be enforced they are normally returned after approx 6 months.

PS: On the matter of the change of address a recent change has been made with the 'sharing of information' with HMRC and DWP and should see a lot more attachments against earnings (or benefits).

[hammermitch]

Re: Marstons trying to force door open

Hi Milo, thanks for the response and information, very surprised to hear they are allowed to force entry!

However the fact remains that they were told that the debtor does not live at the address and still tried to force entry, as far as i know the debtor did live at the address at the time of the offence, he has contacted the the court and informed them that he no longer lives at the address and is currently homeless, he also asked the court for details of this debt and has been told that a warrant of control was issued in september 2014, this is now 7 months ago, and they have recieved no letters or any other contact from marston, this was the first and only contact.

The relative has been informed to make a form 4 complaint to the court at which the bailiff was registered as the bailiff was threatening and aggressive and did try to force entry despite being told the debtor did not live there, is this a reasonable and right step to take, as the relarives at the address are edlerly and do not wish to be harassed by this bailiff again?

[Milo]

Re: Marstons trying to force door open

The relative has been informed to make a form 4 complaint to the court at which the bailiff was registered as the bailiff was threatening and aggressive and did try to force entry despite being told the debtor did not live there, is this a reasonable and right step to take, as the relarives at the address are edlerly and do not wish to be harassed by this bailiff again?

Firstly, a Form 4 Compliant is redundant. The new regulations that came into effect in April last year have a completely different complaints procedure and it is almost certainly the case that a complaint should first be made to the enforcement company. After all, the purpose of making a complaint to the court is to ask that consideration be given to REMOVING the certificate from the bailiff on the basis that he is not a 'fit and proper' person to hold a certificate. Who has advised you to file a Form 4 Compliant?

The warrant has a life of 12 months but can be renewed after this period.

[Big Al]

Re: Marstons trying to force door open

A bailiff enforcing a fine can use reasonable force to enter as a last resort. This does not mean barging doors or pushing householders out of the way.

[hammermitch]

Re: Marstons trying to force door open

Thanks for the replies and information, firstly i think they was told to make a form 4 complaint by the CAB as it is felt the bailiff was quite threatening and aggressive despite being told the debtor did not live there, how can a bailiff just continue to attempt to break into a property when they are not sure they have the right address?

This brings me on to reasonable force, does reasonable force include attempting to force a locked door when told they have the wrong address? surely this could be seen as unfit to hold a certificate? this guy can just knock on any door and when told "sorry does not live here" they just try to force the door open and look for open windows, without making further checks?

I was also told that the bailiff never showed any ID but simply said that he was filming, they have asked Marston to keep the recording, but have so far heard nothing back

[Milo]

Re: Marstons trying to force door open

Thanks for the replies and information, firstly i think they was told to make a form 4 complaint by the CAB as it is felt the bailiff was quite threatening and aggressive despite being told the debtor did not live there, how can a bailiff just continue to attempt to break into a property when they are not sure they have the right address?

This brings me on to reasonable force, does reasonable force include attempting to force a locked door when told they have the wrong address? surely this could be seen as unfit to hold a certificate? this guy can just knock on any door and when told "sorry does not live here" they just try to force the door open and look for open windows, without making further checks?

I was also told that the bailiff never showed any ID but simply said that he was filming, they have asked Marston to keep the recording, but have so far heard nothing back

A bailiff may enter a property through an unlocked door so he is perfectly able to try the door handle to see if it opens.

Secondly, bailiff companies are known to receive hundreds of letters each day stating that a debtor, son, husband etc does not live at a property and it is only when a personal visit is made that it is discovered that the letters were not honest and that the debtor does live at the property.

A good example of this was posted on another forum a few months back and where the debtors wife issued a Form 4 complaint to the court in relation to an argument that developed when bailiffs visited her property early in the morning to enforce a court fine against her husband.

In her initial post on the internet she confirmed that she told the bailiff that her husband was NOT at the property. The bailiff attempted to clamp a vehicle and a struggle developed.......and it was during the struggle that the husband came out of the property!!! The Form 4 complaint was dismissed.

Unless some sort of evidence (such as a forwarding address) is sent to the enforcement company an individual bailiff will most likely make a personal unannounced visit.

Make sure that you ask the enforcement company for a copy of the bailiffs identity.

[hammermitch]

Re: Marstons trying to force door open

Thanks for that

The bailiff in question turned up unnanounced, no previous letters, no previous visits, according to the Bailiffs letter left at the property, the debt is now £865, the debt that is owed is only £555??

The bailiff offered no ID but did state that everything is being recorded and pointed to the camera on his chest, this was at 8.30am.

The person at the address made an immediate complaint to Marston that same afternoon, stressing what the Bailiff had done and asked for video evidence to be kept for the purpose of the complaint, and if needed for a form 4 complaint.

They heard back yesterday that there was NO video evidence?

so for some reason the bailiff in question had erased the video or Marston had themselves veiwed the evidence and erased it?

all the more reason to assume this Bailiff is outside the guidelines and is not fit to hold a certificate