Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

[ABC123]

Good Morning all, I am hoping somebody can help me before I approach a solicitor on Monday morning.

I received a phonecall off a mobile number at 3pm yesterday (Sat 7th Feb), I didn't answer it and the caller left a message and then sent me a text message 2 minutes later. The text message said ;

Hello XXXX
Can you contact me ASAP ref warrant issued against you. Thankyou Mr XXXX, Enforcement Agent to the courts.

I then contacted 'Mr Bailiff' immediately, he answered the phone and greeted me by using my forename, although he wouldn't tell me his...
He informed me that he was contacting me to recover court fees from Avon & Somerset Magistrates Court due to a conviction I have for failure to provide drivers details in July 2014 and that he was trying to recover a debt of £1055.

A little bit of background info on fine;

Yesterday (7/2/15) is the first time I was made aware of the fine or the conviction in my absence at court. In the time frame the bailiff provided me, I lived at the same address and the V5 on the vehicle was registered in that address from the date of purchase to the date of sale. I never received a speeding ticket or any other documentation relating to the case. Like I said up until yesterday I was completely unaware of this £1055 fine existing!! Since the fine was imposed I have a) sold the car and b) moved house.

I tried to explain that I was clueless to the intended prosecution and that I no longer owned the car, Mr Bailiff's reply was 'well quite clearly you are just completely clueless'. I then continued to explain the situation and I was told to 'take responsibility and stop blaming other people' to which I had to ask Mr Bailiff to refrain from using his particular tone and that I was not willing to pay a penny to him until I knew more facts about the case. I was then provided with a ref number for the courts which I will chase up Monday morning.

My question is legally, is there anyway that I can get Marstons to stop contacting me and I presume seizing assets whilst I try and work out why I wasn't made aware of the original offence (speeding) and the subsequent charges, court date and conviction in my absence?

I now live in a house with a flatmate that isn't hugely enthralled about the idea of someone turning up out of the blue and entering the property and I have been led to believe that Mr Bailiff has the authority to do this.

ETA - When I left my flat this evening there was a 'hand delivered letter' stamped 4/2/15. Left at 12:30PM which read;

REMOVAL NOTICE
I Attended your address today at 1230PM to arrange payment under the terms of a warrant issued on behalf of the above client. Despite previous visits and notices this matter has not been settled, and I therefore urge you to contact me on the telephone number below immediately.

Please note that the amount now due is £1055 inclusive of charges for today's attendance. If this amount is NOT PAID IN FULL, IMMEDIATELY, a further call will be made, WITHOUT NOTICE, to take control of goods and potentially REMOVE FOR SALE BY PUBLIC AUCTION. Such action will render you liable to FURTHER SUBSTANSIAL COSTS.

There have been no 'previous visits or notices' given to me as I have not lived at the address the car was registered to for nearly 9 months. So if they have been posting me letters of intent, they have been sending them to the incorrect address.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

ABC

[seduraed]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

First make a nice of tea, and don't panic.
Much more knowledgeable beagles will be along shortly to help. whatever the threats they make a bailiff (Now called n enforcement agent cannot break in without a the permission of the court. Did the person you spoketo idetify themselves as enforcement agent or a high court enforcement officer? The latter have more powers and are more expensive to deal with .
General rules. Keep the doors locked , don't let them in, use your phone or video camera to record them if they come to your door . If you have a car move away so it can't be seen, ideally lock it in a garage.

Monday ring the court, get the name of the person you spoke to. If you haven't received the documents there are ways of unwinding the situation . If it was the usual SP 30 offence there is usually a fine and three points on the licence. If it was first offence you could have been offered a speed awareness course.

[Milo]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

Given that a personal visit has been made then bailiff fees of £310 (£75 Compliance fee and £235 Enforcement fee) have been applied. It would appear therefore that you have a court fine for over £700 and this figure is extremely high for 'failing to provide drivers details'. Unless I am mistaken, this offence would usually refer to a situation where your vehicle had been detected speeding and you failed to respond to a letter asking for the identity of the driver.

I would also assume that you have probably also been convicted of speeding as well. This could be very serious and the reason why is because after a speeding conviction DVLA will write to you to request the return of your driving licence (to apply penalty points). If the driving licence is not returned to DVLA within 30 days then the licence is SUSPENDED and accordingly. your insurance could be worthless.

In the morning you must call the court and ask for the date of the summons etc. It may be that you had moved address or possibly the conviction could have been after the car had been sold and before DVLA had updated their records with new keeper details. If you had not received the summons then the court should allow you to file a Statutory Declaration. All bailiff enforcement will then cease.

Please post back once you have spoken with the court.

PS: The bailiff is 'commanded' by order of the court to enforce the warrant and only the court can ask him to withhold action.

[ABC123]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

First make a nice of tea, and don't panic.
Much more knowledgeable beagles will be along shortly to help. whatever the threats they make a bailiff (Now called n enforcement agent cannot break in without a the permission of the court. Did the person you spoketo idetify themselves as enforcement agent or a high court enforcement officer? The latter have more powers and are more expensive to deal with .
General rules. Keep the doors locked , don't let them in, use your phone or video camera to record them if they come to your door . If you have a car move away so it can't be seen, ideally lock it in a garage.

Monday ring the court, get the name of the person you spoke to. If you haven't received the documents there are ways of unwinding the situation . If it was the usual SP 30 offence there is usually a fine and three points on the licence. If it was first offence you could have been offered a speed awareness course.

Thankyou for the reply, although I think instead of the cup of tea I am going to go for something slightly stronger!

In response to your questions,

The gentleman on the phone did not identify himself as an Enforcement agent or High Court enforcement, infact until I asked he didn't even identify which company he was working for, he just said that he was responsible for recovery of a fine owed to Avon & Somerset Magistrates Court.

My car is tucked away in a carpark a little walk down from my new Flat, although I am under the impression due to my new car being on finance (with a large amount still owing) that this can't be seized or clamped?

Thanks again.

ABC

[ABC123]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

Given that a personal visit has been made then bailiff fees of £310 (£75 Compliance fee and £235 Enforcement fee) have been applied. It would appear therefore that you have a court fine for over £700 and this figure is extremely high for 'failing to provide drivers details'. Unless I am mistaken, this offence would usually refer to a situation where your vehicle had been detected speeding and you failed to respond to a letter asking for the identity of the driver.

I would also assume that you have probably also been convicted of speeding as well. This could be very serious and the reason why is because after a speeding conviction DVLA will write to you to request the return of your driving licence (to apply penalty points). If the driving licence is not returned to DVLA within 30 days then the licence is SUSPENDED and accordingly. your insurance could be worthless.

In the morning you must call the court and ask for the date of the summons etc. It may be that you had moved address or possibly the conviction could have been after the car had been sold and before DVLA had updated their records with new keeper details. If you had not received the summons then the court should allow you to file a Statutory Declaration. All bailiff enforcement will then cease.

Please post back once you have spoken with the court.

PS: The bailiff is 'commanded' by order of the court to enforce the warrant and only the court can ask him to withhold action.

Thanks also for your reply, sorry if I sound completely ignorant of the law.


How can a £235 fee be charge when he contacted me via phone? There is no proof that he was at my address at any point on Saturday, an at no point did he ask me to come and meet him, pay the fine or even tell me he was at the property! Or is the enforcement fee for the letter? In that case... I haven't been made aware of the 'compliance' stage.. So I couldn't have complied even if I'd have wanted too!

In regards to the SP30, yes I presume I have been convicted of speeding, which I am and always would have been happy to hold my hands up too. It is my first offence and apart from this mess I have a clean license and have done since I passed my test! I have already sent my license back to the DVLA in a hope that they will be able to shed some light on the situation and send me some points! Although my insurance hasn't been invalidated to my knowledge as I had an accident in new car (other driver at fault) late last year and the claim has been authorised by my insurers.

I guess I am just going to have to wait until the morning when I can contact the courts. Thanks for shedding some light on the situation for me though and putting my mind slightly at ease.

ABC

eta - Just out of interest, how long does a statutory declaration take to be filed and processed.. Seeing as I presume I still have to deal with the EA entering my property and turning up at my door until this had been processed.

[ABC123]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

Small update -

Avon and Somerset Constabulary have charged me with MS90 and awarded me with 6 points and a £600 fine in my absence, but it doesn't appear they've charged me with any offence that I 'failed to provide' on?

[Milo]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

Small update -

Avon and Somerset Constabulary have charged me with MS90 and awarded me with 6 points and a £600 fine in my absence, but it doesn't appear they've charged me with any offence that I 'failed to provide' on?

Such an offence would normally mean 3 penalty points and a greatly reduced fine. The reason for 6 points and a larger fine would be due to you failing to respond to the summons, complete the Means Form and failure to attend court. A statutory declaration would correct this.

You have 21 days from "becoming aware' of the conviction to file the stat dec. You need to call the court this morning and explain that you have only just found out about this matter. Most importantly, you need to inform them that a bailiff is currently enforcing the debt. The court can ask the bailiff company to cease enforcement for a short period to allow the stat dec to be filed.

A word of caution. New regulations have come into effect about stat decs and now, magistrates accepting a stat dec must list the case for a re a re-hearing as quickly as possible.

Also, the new regulations and supplementary advice given to the Magistrates provide that the summons will be void. However, the initial written charge (or information) by the relevant police force remain in force and will be valid and will not be 'void'.

[ABC123]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

Hopefully a final update for you all!

Contacted Bath Magistrates yesterday morning and they informed me that all correspondence was sent to the incorrect address, they advised me to contact my local court and I have an apt to sign a statutory declaration on Wednesday. Lady on the phone assured me that this would mean the correspondence with Marsdons would stop unless I ignored the NIP this time round.

Thankyou for all of your help in has been invaluable whilst speaking to the courts and meant it was all sorted out in 45 minutes on a Monday morning!

Thanks again, ABC.

[Milo]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

Hopefully a final update for you all!

Contacted Bath Magistrates yesterday morning and they informed me that all correspondence was sent to the incorrect address, they advised me to contact my local court and I have an apt to sign a statutory declaration on Wednesday. Lady on the phone assured me that this would mean the correspondence with Marsdons would stop unless I ignored the NIP this time round.

Thankyou for all of your help in has been invaluable whilst speaking to the courts and meant it was all sorted out in 45 minutes on a Monday morning!

Thanks again, ABC.

An excellent outcome indeed, With regards to the Statutory Declaration, as outlined in my above post, new regulations have come into force regarding statutory declarations and new guidance also given to Magistrates regarding the 'procedure' that should be followed by the court.

In many recent cases Magistrates consider the case again to ascertain whether or not you want to plead guilty etc. Given that the new regs are very new and some courts appear to have slightly different 'procedures' in place, I would be grateful if you could post back to let us know how your application is dealt with.

[Milo]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

Thanks also for your reply, sorry if I sound completely ignorant of the law.


How can a £235 fee be charge when he contacted me via phone? There is no proof that he was at my address at any point on Saturday, an at no point did he ask me to come and meet him, pay the fine or even tell me he was at the property! Or is the enforcement fee for the letter? In that case... I haven't been made aware of the 'compliance' stage.. So I couldn't have complied even if I'd have wanted too!

I do apologise. I had not read your query properly. The 'enforcement fee' of £235 can only be charged when the enforcement agent 'attends' the property (for the purpose of 'taking control of goods'). If it is the case that the bailiff is merely calling or texting you then NO....he cannot charge the 'enforcement fee' of £235 (given that he has not 'attended' the premises.

[bizzybob]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

I do apologise. I had not read your query properly. The 'enforcement fee' of £235 can only be charged when the enforcement agent 'attends' the property (for the purpose of 'taking control of goods'). If it is the case that the bailiff is merely calling or texting you then NO....he cannot charge the 'enforcement fee' of £235 (given that he has not 'attended' the premises.

ABC123 had better check to see if the EA is trying it on as they may well have added the fees. Do the fees still die with a Stat Dec, or are the Compliance Stage fees still payable under Op's circumstances.

[Milo]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

ABC123 had better check to see if the EA is trying it on as they may well have added the fees. Do the fees still die with a Stat Dec, or are the Compliance Stage fees still payable under Op's circumstances.

If a Statutory Declaration is accepted, the summons and all subsequent proceedings are considered void and accordingly, all bailiff fees would have to be removed. The entire enforcement power ceases.

It is important to make the point that in cases of a Statutory Declaration, only the summons will be considered void. The "information" or the initial written charge for which the summons was issued for will NOT be considered void.

[ABC123]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

An excellent outcome indeed, With regards to the Statutory Declaration, as outlined in my above post, new regulations have come into force regarding statutory declarations and new guidance also given to Magistrates regarding the 'procedure' that should be followed by the court.

In many recent cases Magistrates consider the case again to ascertain whether or not you want to plead guilty etc. Given that the new regs are very new and some courts appear to have slightly different 'procedures' in place, I would be grateful if you could post back to let us know how your application is dealt with.

Just an update for you, I attended my local court today to sign the statutory declaration.
After I signed the declaration I was advised that I had a new court date to attend Bath Magistrates to have the case tried again, I was also advised to expect a court summons through the post in the next week or so.

I now have to get back in contact with Bath Mag as they couldn't provide the specific details to myself on Monday or my local court today as to how fast I was actually going at the time or which direction along the M4 I was travelling.

I was under the impression that it would just be a case of them sending me the original speeding ticket again and me providing the details of the driver, unfortunately it now looks like I shall be traipsing back to Bath and back to court for the day!

I shall try and keep this thread updated when things happen over the next few weeks just incase my experience is useful to someone else in the future!

[Milo]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

Just an update for you, I attended my local court today to sign the statutory declaration.
After I signed the declaration I was advised that I had a new court date to attend Bath Magistrates to have the case tried again, I was also advised to expect a court summons through the post in the next week or so.

I now have to get back in contact with Bath Mag as they couldn't provide the specific details to myself on Monday or my local court today as to how fast I was actually going at the time or which direction along the M4 I was travelling.

I was under the impression that it would just be a case of them sending me the original speeding ticket again and me providing the details of the driver, unfortunately it now looks like I shall be traipsing back to Bath and back to court for the day!

I shall try and keep this thread updated when things happen over the next few weeks just incase my experience is useful to someone else in the future!

Thank you so much for posting back. As I said above, the new procedures for Statutory Declarations are very new and many Magistrates seem to be dealing with stat decs in different ways and indeed a lot depends on the type of offence.


On Monday and Tuesday we had two cases where Stat Decs were accepted for TV LIcence fines and in both cases the court did not list the cases for re-hearings but instead, decided the cases again on the day and new fines were issued on the spot. In both cases the debtors confirmed that they had received a visit from a TV Licence inspector and had signed a form at the time agreeing that they had used a TV without a licence.


A case from last week was also reheard at the same time and that was a fine for having a vehicle on the road without insurance.


In a further case on Monday for an offence of 'speeding' the stat dec was accepted but the case is the same as yours where a new summons is to be issued and the reason for this is to give the person the opportunity to consider the evidence from the relevant police authority. Please do update this thread regarding the progress of this case.

[Milo]

Re: Suprise 'removal notice' from Marstons

If a Statutory Declaration is accepted, the summons and all subsequent proceedings are considered void and accordingly, all bailiff fees would have to be removed. The entire enforcement power ceases.

It is important to make the point that in cases of a Statutory Declaration, only the summons will be considered void. The "information" or the initial written charge for which the summons was issued for will NOT be considered void.

Sorry, I could not edit the above thread. When a Stat dec is filed the "information or the initial written charge for which the summons had been issued will not be considered void. This means that the offences do not become time barred.