EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

[Milo]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

Yes it would seem so.

There are a couple of points I would like to clear up though, firstly, if LAs cannot currently add fees to AOEs, what about the 137 arrangements which have been made by the EA, surely they are not going to do the work involved here without some kind of payment, and secondly what about the amendment in schedule 13, is this completely ineffective ?

I am sure all this will become clear but it does seem a bit of a mess to me.

The thread has now been split so that the important parts stay here and discussions can take place elsewhere on the forum.

[Wombats]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

Totally agree - the legislation still appears to me to say differently. The answer to your latest FOI request will prove interesting.

In the meantime, the current position of accepting fees cannot be charged would be excellent. Let's hope that is, indeed, the case.

[Guest]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

The thread has now been split so that the important parts stay here and discussions can take place elsewhere on the forum.

Yes I would like to think the discussion on this issue could continue on here, and anything else can be shared on the other thread.

[Guest]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

Totally agree - the legislation still appears to me to say differently. The answer to your latest FOI request will prove interesting.

In the meantime, the current position of accepting fees cannot be charged would be excellent. Let's hope that is, indeed, the case.

Yes indeed, although I cannot see that this would be an intentional consequence of the legislation, and if not I cannot see it persisting.

[Wombats]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

I have read the various pieces of legislation over and over since yesterday afternoon, and I have to say that to me it seems fees can still be added to AOE's. I would love someone to prove me wrong, but I remain to be convinced.

[Guest]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

It seems to me that there has been a giant cock up wombats, first the council tax regs were amended so that fees could be added, then the amendment was removed when it was found that it was in contradiction with other regulations brought in this year.
The question now is whether the amendment to the statute in schedule 13 has remedied the mistake or if there are other measures which will have to be taken in the future.
One thing that I think is certain, there was no intention of fees being lost in this way, not by the authorities and especially not by the EAs.

[Guest]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

There have been many cock ups. We all know this. The regulations have clearly been rushed through 12 months early as almost everyone has said. I believe there are some issues with magistrates courts fines and, in fact, John kruse has touched on this since April 6th.

Regarding the AOE's, you may be interested to know that pre-April, the courts had determined that if the balance of the LO was paid, prior to a levy being made, then the liable person would no longer qualify as "the debtor" (as per Reg45 CT Enforcement regs)

I don't believe that this is the case post April 6th but it is something to consider when trying to understand the current situation regarding AOE's.

[Guest]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

Yes indeed the regulations in particular were rushed, for various reasons, and there were problems with the criminal procedure rules, or more so advertising the fact that they have not been law since April last. These are probably subjects for another thread(or two) as is the fact that if the total amount outstanding, including fees is paid there can be no further action under the new regime.

[Amethyst]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

Please keep to the topic. I have edited a couple of posts. Thank you.

[Wombats]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

There have been many cock ups. We all know this. The regulations have clearly been rushed through 12 months early as almost everyone has said. I believe there are some issues with magistrates courts fines and, in fact, John kruse has touched on this since April 6th.

John Kruse has not only touched on it, he has written exensively about the issues. I have not yet read any of his writings about AOE's unfortunately, as he is known for nearly always getting things spot on.

We can only interpret things as they are, and the fact we interpret things differently almost certainly means others (courts) will interpret things differently.

To me, the main thing here is to live in the real world and look what is actually happening with these issues out there, in real life. Where the law seems to contradict itself, look what happens to debtors who are in those situations, as it is what really happens to them that will best guide our ability to help them. If we are blind to what is happening to them, we are impotent to offer help.

[Guest]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

JK rarely gets involved in AOE's etc. He will focus on EA's.

You are correct. We must live in the real world. It appears that LA's are all adopting various methods. Just like you and I, they are interpreting things differently. When councils are prepared to waive bailiff fees in real life, why would we want to change their stance? If a council have stated in writing that bailiff fees will not be added to an AOE, why on earth would anyone want them to revise this?

I believe that currently, it would be fairly simple for a debtor to dig their heels in and refuse to pay bailiff fees. The council don't care once they have their funds and the bailiff would then have little option other than to write the debt off.

Where this scenario will be of concern in the future is when more and more greedy councils go in-house. The only motive for doing so will be to maximise profit. They will certainly look to add fees to AOE's when it is their own money involved. I just wonder whether there would be an opportunity to challenge the compliance fee if the debt is passed internally from one department to another?

[Milo]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

John Kruse has not only touched on it, he has written exensively about the issues. I have not yet read any of his writings about AOE's unfortunately, as he is known for nearly always getting things spot on.

Can I just make a point here so that there is no confusion. The 'issues' that John Kruse has about Magistrate Court fines is not ( I repeat NOT) about whether or not the new regulations (and with it the fee scale) apply to Magistrate court fines. He is very clear in that they do and that this has always been Parliament's intention.

JK's criticism of MOJ is exactly the same as mine and concerns an error to the Criminal Procedure Rules (not the Magistrate Courts Act 1980) and the severe delay in correcting it. MOJ are very much aware of my own complaints in this same matter as well.

In a perverse way, the complaint is the same as we are now experiencing with Attachment of Earnings.

[Guest]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

yes what we are dealing with is the situation which has been created due to the way the regulations have been implemented.
Really it is because the authorities are as confused as we are. And I am talking about the subject of the thread now not magistrates court fees.

However eventually all this will be sorted out, in my opinion(and several others) the reason that some LAs do not add these fees is due to a mistake made in drafting and implementation of the regulations.
This has been recognized and will be rectified, this will happen no matter what we do or say on here or elsewhere, it is nice to think that we can alter these events but in practice we cannot.

The interesting part to me is exactly how the error will be remedied, and if in fact there is an error and not just a misunderstanding of the way the act has been drefted. I am still unsure of the function of the amendments in schedule 13 for instance

[Big Al]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

I see this issue seems to have been resolved -
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk........An-update

[Guest]

Re: EA Action and Attachment of Earnings

I see this issue seems to have been resolved -
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk........An-update

Not really, it wont be resolved until everyone understands the situation, at the moment all we have is opinion