Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

[Wombats]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

I see no problem there. It is better for all if councils take a consistent approach to the new regulations.

[Guest]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

I have read the thread properly.

The advice to wait until the bailiff gets fed up and returns the warrant is not the advice from the local authority. It is your personal advice

I cannot see anywhere where the debtor has stated that he will be setting aside payments. I have seen that this is a suggestion of yours.

I personally would not be stating on a forum that bailiff fees are not included in an Attachement of Earnings Order as currently this subject is one that is being clarified by government.

You have stated that if an Attachment of Earnings is obtained this will be on the 'ability to pay. This is not correct. The actual deductions are in accordance with statutory regulations.

Why do you want to make an argument of it?

Of course it's not the LA advice, and no-one has said it is. The OP has offered to pay £600 per month; the advice is to set that aside and await the warrant's return. AoE do not include bailiff fees as evidenced in several FoIs I've read. AoE is, in essence, based on ability to pay. The more you earn, the more you pay. If you are on £100 a week, an AoE could last for years at an affordable rate rather than a bailiff demanding full payment or masive repayment plans.

[Wombats]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

This man has a company car so is unlikely to be on that small an income. Assuming he has a net monthly income of between £1420 and £2000 (average), his deductions would be 17% on each LO - I note he has two of them.

At the bottom end of this an AoE would leave him paying £241 per LO - a massive £482 per month. This is unlikely to be affordable for most families, and thus would exacerbate his problem.

[Guest]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

I cannot believe that this is still being raised as an issue, there are FOI requests this is one

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...utgoing-400434

If a taxpayer makes payment direct to the local authority in response to a
bill in good time then there will be no enforcement procedure. However, if
the taxpayer does not pay in good time and the local authority obtains a
liability order and passes that to a bailiff for collection then the
enforcement process has begun. Once the enforcement procedure has begun
the enforcement agent is entitled to its fees in accordance with the
Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014.



As stated in the Council’s previous response a payment made after the
enforcement process has begun is governed by these Regulations. It
therefore does not matter who receives the payment. It amounts to
“proceeds” under the enforcement process. The Regulations are quite
explicit on what should happen when the payment is less than the
outstanding amount.

These are publicly available if there is anything that contradicts this then lets see it, it not then for gods sake lets move one forget the "pay the council and avoid the fees" nonsense, the debt must be paid to the bailiff if the bailiff is collecting the debt, unless the debtor wishes to pay in full (including any fees due)then they can pay the authority if they like, but really there is little point.

[Guest]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

This man has a company car so is unlikely to be on that small an income. Assuming he has a net monthly income of between £1420 and £2000 (average), his deductions would be 17% on each LO - I note he has two of them.

At the bottom end of this an AoE would leave him paying £241 per LO - a massive £482 per month. This is unlikely to be affordable for most families, and thus would exacerbate his problem.

Not sure why this reply was removed, so I'll post it again. Please read the thread Wombats. The OP has already said he can pay £600 per month.

[Wombats]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

As you know Andy, this has been argued to death. You are right, and I'm afraid G-man is incorrect based on the evidence available.

The FOI's mentioned above in post 32 have been typed out, but copies not provided to show the true source from what I have seen (not that I doubt it, I prefer to work on facts though).

As you say, it is better to accept the situation as it is and move on. This really has been done to death. :beagle:

Still looking forward to reading the FOI you first mentioned.

[Guest]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

Ref: 6877

Dear ******


I refer to your emailed request under the Freedom of Information Act regarding Enforcement Agent Fees.


I can confirm that once an outstanding Council Tax charge (where a liability order has been issued by the Magistrates Court) has been sent to an Enforcement Agent, the Enforcement Agent will add their fees to the debt in accordance with the regulations that govern their actions and fees.


It is normal practice that cases that have been passed to the Enforcement Agent will be directed to them to make payment or to discuss payment of the outstanding balance.


If, however, a payment is made directly to the Council without payment of the Enforcement Agent fees, the Council will notify the Enforcement Agent of the receipt of the direct payment and the revised balance with the Council. The Enforcement Agent will then arrange for payment of any remaining balance and their fees directly with the customer.


Occasionally, the Council has received direct payment from customers for the total of their outstanding Council Tax debt plus the fees of the Enforcement Agent. In these circumstances, the Council Tax account would be in credit to the value of the Enforcement Agent fees, and so the Council would send payment of the fees to the Enforcement Agent. This is a rare occurrence.


If you are dissatisfied with the handling of your request you can ask for a review of your reply. To request a review please contact the Freedom of Information Officer at Slough Borough Council, St Martin’s Place, 51 Bath Road, Slough, Berkshire, SL1 3UF, telephone 01753 875070, email foi@slough.gov.uk
For further information you can also contact the Information Commissioner at:
Information Commissioner's Office, Wycliffe House, Water Lane, Wilmslow, Cheshire, SK9 5AF,
Telephone: 0303 123 1113, or www.ico.gov.uk.
Regards
Carolyn Szadura

[Guest]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

Oh, just so you know, I also have a copy of a FoI from E. Northants that a friend did that says the same.

[Guest]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

I am not sure what you think this says

If, however, a payment is made directly to the Council without payment of the Enforcement Agent fees, the Council will notify the Enforcement Agent of the receipt of the direct payment and the revised balance with the Council. The Enforcement Agent will then arrange for payment of any remaining balance and their fees directly with the customer.

It does not mean that this authority writes of the fees on direct payment, it says that the enforcement agent will pursue their fees ?

[Guest]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

Also I am intrigued by the continued mention of section 45(3) of the ocnil tas regs, this regulation implicitly states that the fees must also be paid ?

Distress

45. (1) Where a liability order has been made, the authority which applied for the order may levy the appropriate amount by distress and sale of the goods of the debtor against whom the order was made.(2) The appropriate amount for the purposes of paragraph (1) is the aggregate of—

(a)

an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, and

(b)

a sum determined in accordance with Schedule 5 in respect of charges connected with the distress.
(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

[Guest]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

I am not sure what you think this says

If, however, a payment is made directly to the Council without payment of the Enforcement Agent fees, the Council will notify the Enforcement Agent of the receipt of the direct payment and the revised balance with the Council. The Enforcement Agent will then arrange for payment of any remaining balance and their fees directly with the customer.

It does not mean that this authority writes of the fees on direct payment, it says that the enforcement agent will pursue their fees ?

No-one is saying that the fees are written off, but what it certainly does say is that the council do not pass any money on to the bailiff, which has been asserted does happen. Therefore, it clearly cannot be the law that fees must be passed on.

[Guest]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

Also I am intrigued by the continued mention of section 45(3) of the ocnil tas regs, this regulation implicitly states that the fees must also be paid ?

Distress

45. (1) Where a liability order has been made, the authority which applied for the order may levy the appropriate amount by distress and sale of the goods of the debtor against whom the order was made.(2) The appropriate amount for the purposes of paragraph (1) is the aggregate of—

(a)

an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, and

(b)

a sum determined in accordance with Schedule 5 in respect of charges connected with the distress.
(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

Clutching at ever decreasing straws again. All the FoI is saying is that they don't pass on fees. The bailiff is free to pursue for his fees, but as far as the council are concerned, the debt owed to them is paid.

[Guest]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

Clutching at ever decreasing straws again. All the FoI is saying is that they don't pass on fees. The bailiff is free to pursue for his fees, but as far as the council are concerned, the debt owed to them is paid.

How is quoiting legislation "clutching at straws" what you forget is that it is you who are swimming against the tide here, everyone else understands the situation.

[Amethyst]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

[/FONT]

Thanks for posting that. Do you have a date for the letter ? ( approx is fine )

[Guest]

Re: Advice on Newlyn's tactics...

Thanks for posting that. Do you have a date for the letter ? ( approx is fine )

You mean the FoI I posted? 24-11-2014.