Bristow & Sutor - Leicester CCl - Council Tax...Magistrates Liability Order?!

[Guest]

Re: Bristow & Sutor - Leicester CCl - Council Tax...Magistrates Liability Order?!

What you are to understand is this:

1. Most taxpayers have a right to pay by instalments
2. If a taxpayer defaults and reminder notices have been sent, the right to pay in instalments is revoked and the whole years tax becomes due within 7 days.
3. By the time of enforcement action, this tax will have been due for a lot longer than 7 days. This means there is statutory provision for the debt to be paid in full even before the debt reaches enforcement.

Bearing in mind that no interest is added to this debt, what would you suggest? An authority accept £1.00 a week? There has to be targets, just like any other sector and the debt is already way overdue.

If you think you've cracked something, run along & tell the Government how nasty they are being. Tell them that the LO process is fraudulent as well & how it just isn't fair.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bristow & Sutor - Leicester CCl - Council Tax...Magistrates Liability Order?!

What you are to understand is this:

1. Most taxpayers have a right to pay by instalments
2. If a taxpayer defaults and reminder notices have been sent, the right to pay in instalments is revoked and the whole years tax becomes due within 7 days.
3. By the time of enforcement action, this tax will have been due for a lot longer than 7 days. This means there is statutory provision for the debt to be paid in full even before the debt reaches enforcement.

Bearing in mind that no interest is added to this debt, what would you suggest? An authority accept £1.00 a week? There has to be targets, just like any other sector and the debt is already way overdue.

If you think you've cracked something, run along & tell the Government how nasty they are being. Tell them that the LO process is fraudulent as well & how it just isn't fair.

Thank you for confirming what I suspected - there is no legal basis for stipulating time-limits for collecting CT arrears in contracts between local authorities and civil enforcement companies.

The bulleted items are well-known, but the specific issue is the use of civil enforcement companies to collect arrears. The more severe sanctions, namely, bankruptcy proceedings, civil enforcement and committal to prison, are intended for die-hard "won't pays" as distinct from "can't pays". This is what Parliament intended when it enacted the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992. Provisions such as Attachment of Benefits and Attachment of Earnings Orders are intended for those who are in financial difficulties. Also, local authorities can set up repayment arrangements that debtors can afford.

The comment about there having to be targets, just like any other sector, is probably part of the problem. Having spoken to former colleagues who are still in the police force, a lot of serving officers are realising that target-driven policing is resulting in people being wrongfully or, worse, unlawfully arrested and they are seriously worried about what is going on. In my experience, where a target-driven culture is introduced, unlawful or even illegal behaviour will develop and eventually become the norm, a process known as normalisation. When this happens, those involved see nothing wrong in what they are doing as, to them, it is normal behaviour.

As to the comment you make in the last paragraph of your post, the government has known for sometime that the electorate has sussed what is going on and the government is panicking. They know courts staff have worked out that what they are being asked to do is of doubtful legality. Why do you think this government is trying to privatise the judicial process?

If I may illustrate what sort of panic the government is in, I'll use the scene in the film "The Wizard of Oz" (Judy Garland version) where Dorothy and Co go to the Emerald City to meet the Wizard of Oz as this is the most accurate illustration of the panic this government is in. Toto the dog pulls a curtain aside, revealing an old man manipulating levers and switches and talking into a microphone. When the old man realises he has been rumbled and says into the microphone, "Ignore the man behind the curtain. Look at the face on the screen," that is how desperate and panicked this government is.

Like I said earlier in this thread, where CT is concerned, debtors, civil enforcement companies and bailiffs are all victims of the corruption of the system. A lot of insiders who have been voicing concerns about CT can see it collapsing altogether.

[Guest]

Re: Bristow & Sutor - Leicester CCl - Council Tax...Magistrates Liability Order?!

If you don't understand that the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 are statutory provision then there really is no hope for you.

& don't start me on the police-They make bailiffs look like choir boys. If you think its bad now with targets, you should have been around in the days of the SPG or the West Midlands Serious Crime Squad.

The whole system is rotten to the core, including the police force. Magistrates courts have never so much as blinked when hearing trials involving their friends from the police so I don't see why you think it would be any different for their friends the council.

[wales01man]

Re: Bristow & Sutor - Leicester CCl - Council Tax...Magistrates Liability Order?!

I paid a CT bill subject to a LO over nearly 5 years no bailiffs involved after dealing with the Council direct after the threat of bailiffs.
I told them I would not deal with Bailiffs full stop

[ladystardust888]

Re: Bristow & Sutor - Leicester CCl - Council Tax...Magistrates Liability Order?!

I'm typing this from my phone so apologies if there are any horrendous typos!

My internet access has been down (and still is) since the last post so was unable to send across any emails I did draft a huge letter to send to both B&S and the Council which were sent out Saturday afternoon. I'll fire across electronic copies tomorrow at work and will be calling to file a formal complaint first thing tomorrow. Honestly I'm a little bit worried, but I have everything down on paper so hopefully something will come of this.

Seems nigh on impossible to find actual names to complain to, I tried having a look on LinkedIn but no such luck!

[bizzybob]

Re: Bristow & Sutor - Leicester CCl - Council Tax...Magistrates Liability Order?!

"Seems nigh on impossible to find actual names to complain to, I tried having a look on LinkedIn but no such luck! "

Try Facebook, one Marstons bailiff was caught out on there denigrating and ridiculing debtors

[bluebottle]

Re: Bristow & Sutor - Leicester CCl - Council Tax...Magistrates Liability Order?!

If you don't understand that the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 are statutory provision then there really is no hope for you.

& don't start me on the police-They make bailiffs look like choir boys. If you think its bad now with targets, you should have been around in the days of the SPG or the West Midlands Serious Crime Squad.

The whole system is rotten to the core, including the police force. Magistrates courts have never so much as blinked when hearing trials involving their friends from the police so I don't see why you think it would be any different for their friends the council.

Oh I can remember the Met's SPG. I was in the Met at the time they were in existence. The SPG were very adept at sparking off civil disorder. Within the Met they were known as The Banana Bunch - green on the outside, yellow on the inside - as they drove around in green minibuses. There were other names they were called, but none fit to be posted on this forum.

The corruption within West Midlands Police SCS was well-known. Greater Manchester Police is currently under investigation for corruption. I can see Durham Constabulary being next on the list for investigation.

I agree with you fully about magistrates courts, especially where there is a high volume of cases heard by JPs. Down in the South West, however, I have noticed a number of cases heard by JPs in the last 12 months have been thrown out and this appears to be a trend. At least, that's what it looks like. I have asked a couple of acquaintances who are JPs about this and it would appear that the younger and newer JPs have had enough of the "cozy" relationships between the police and certain benches of JPs. Some Justices Clerks need looking at more closely, too.

[ladystardust888]

Re: Bristow & Sutor - Leicester CCl - Council Tax...Magistrates Liability Order?!

So...a minor update.

I called the Council Tax Department after initially speaking to the Customer Services. Logged a very in-depth complaint this morning...a little bit of a boost when the girl who I spoke to completely agreed with everything ("Fifty pound is completely reasonable...why the threatening behaviour?")

The account is on hold for 10 days while it's passed to Senior Management, the letter I sent Saturday has meant it's escalated to as high as it can go within their department. Three options:

* The Council take the debt back and I pay directly through them (Yes please!)
* They instruct Bristow & Sutor to accept my payment plan (Not the best but okay)
* They decide that Bristow & Sutor have acted fully within the law and leave it to them (no thank you!)

They'll also be instructing B&S to back off essentially. Fingers crossed something good comes!

[ploddertom]

Re: Bristow & Sutor - Leicester CCl - Council Tax...Magistrates Liability Order?!

You have to remember that most Councils believe everything they are told by their holier than thou Enforcement Co's & Agents. Even if it means knowing the moon is made of cheese.