Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

[katscott]

Hi

A little help please....

Bristow and sutor have just sent me a letter demanding payment for £180 for last years council tax, has far as i was aware the debt had been paid in full to the council in January this year, i rang the council to see if i had an out standing balance, they said i didn't and that they will more than likely be bailiff fee's. I went on B&S website and emailed them asking what the amount was for, they emailed back and said it was there bailiff fees, asked me to fill in a questionnaire and arrange payment my 20/07/2014. I emailed them back asking for a break down of apparent fees and when they where incurred, I am still waiting to hear back from them.

Can they still charge fees after i have already paid the council directly and why have they waited 6 months to get in touch about this.

Thanks Kat x

[Milo]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

Katscott,

It is very difficult to give accurate advice without knowing more about the debt and payment . The problem is made worse by the fact that new regulations came on board on 6th April and this can affect debts that had been subject to previous enforcement (before 6th April).

In the first instance it will be necessary to know the following:

The amount of the Liability Order (as confirmed by the local authority and not the bailiff).

What fees that had been applied to the account before payment had been made.

Whether or not a 'levy' had previously been made on your goods (such as a car etc).

Once you have this information can you post back.

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

Karlscott

If fees were applied last year and you paid the Council direct to avoid them....well you just delayed them.

You must be very careful now, because it is known of some Enforcement Agencies to apply a further £235 to your current debt, if a visit is made after 6/4/14, on top of what was the balance up to 5/4/14

[katscott]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

I have just had email back from B&S they attached the following....

	1,072.30	0.00	1,072.30		Opening Balance
10/07/13	+56.00	+56.00	0.00		Levy Fee: 10/07/13
28/07/13	-133.30	-56.00	-77.30		Credit/Debit Card Payment
09/09/13	-200.00	0.00	-200.00		Payment by Standing Order
15/10/13	-150.00	0.00	-150.00		Payment by Standing Order: 15/10/13
16/12/13	+180.00	+180.00	0.00		Van/Abortive Removal Fees: 16/12/13
12/02/14	-125.00	0.00	-125.00		Paid Direct: 10/02/14
07/03/14	-100.00	0.00	-100.00		Paid Direct: 14/02/14
07/03/14	-100.00	0.00	-100.00		Paid Direct: 21/02/14
07/03/14	-100.00	0.00	-100.00		Paid Direct: 28/02/14
25/06/14	-100.00	0.00	-100.00		Paid Direct: 17/03/14
25/06/14	-75.00	0.00	-75.00		Paid Direct: 21/03/14
25/06/14	-45.00	0.00	-45.00		Paid Direct: 14/04/14
	180.00	180.00	0.00		Current Balance

I never saw a bailiff, i only had things pushed through the door, arrangements for weekly payments where sorted in January so it would be paid off before end of the tax year with advise from stepchange. It was stepchange that told us to pay the council direct. We did get something pushed through the door to say they had a levy on our car.

[Crazy council]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

Its the van fees that they have added.

Difficult this one, because it is owed, but wither its reasonable for them to enforce it.

16/12/13

+180.00

+180.00

0.00

Van/Abortive Removal Fees: 16/12/13

did they attend with a van, can you recall. If not, email the baillif, asking for proof of attendance. When was you first notified about the van charge. I would also consider say this to the bailiffs.

email the Ballifs, state that becuase the disput is in relation to the charges for the van, and that the origional debt has been paid, and you were not notifed of the van charge till ********, that you wish to dispute this charge. Because of that, you want proof of attendance for the van ( you should have got some paperwork before hand as well )

Due to the fact that i am only disputing the van charge, not the debt, that you request they hold further action until you have received proof of attendance with the van for 14 days so you can decide if you wish to dispute it further. Ask them to supply the details of there regulators at the same time they send the proof of attendance.

Ie, cause them a big enough pile of work, legitimately, they are more likely to drop the extras.

How well the above wil work may depend on what evidence they or you have in realtion to the van attendance and the appropreateness of sending a van at that stage

Like i and the other say, on paper, you owe this, and if you dont dispute it properly, they will try add charges or just send baillifs to put presure on. The reason why i suggest doing the above, is it was common practise for some baillfs to add these fees to accounts that were being paid, as an uplift

As an alternative, if they did attend and have proof, then email the following

Due to our financial circumstances, and our requirement to maintain my current years council tax, so as to avoid fees like this, we offer £ 2pw, to pay this debt up. Please provide bank details so we can set up a standing order.

Just my opinions

[Guest]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

You have not entered into an agreement with B&S

Unfortunately, the fact that you have made payments, indicates a willingness and acceptance on your part.

You can argue the following:

1. You did not agree in writing to any repayment plan
2. If for point of argument, you did enter into an agreement, £180 is way too excessive. In addition, B&S will not have attended with a van so the visit was not with "an intention" to remove goods. They will argue that they did intend to remove goods (despite turning up in a vehicle not fit for the purpose of removing a car)

A formal complaint to the council is needed here. Your car must be hidden in the meantime as it is a target for B&S. Ask the council to suspend recovery action whilst your complaint is investigated. Send your complaint to the CEO & copy it to B&S.

[Guest]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

Its the van fees that they have added.

Difficult this one, because it is owed, but wither its reasonable for them to enforce it.



did they attend with a van, can you recall. If not, email the baillif, asking for proof of attendance. When was you first notified about the van charge. I would also consider say this to the bailiffs.

email the Ballifs, state that becuase the disput is in relation to the charges for the van, and that the origional debt has been paid, and you were not notifed of the van charge till ********, that you wish to dispute this charge. Because of that, you want proof of attendance for the van ( you should have got some paperwork before hand as well )

Due to the fact that i am only disputing the van charge, not the debt, that you request they hold further action until you have received proof of attendance with the van for 14 days so you can decide if you wish to dispute it further. Ask them to supply the details of there regulators at the same time they send the proof of attendance.

Ie, cause them a big enough pile of work, legitimately, they are more likely to drop the extras.

How well the above wil work may depend on what evidence they or you have in realtion to the van attendance and the appropreateness of sending a van at that stage

Like i and the other say, on paper, you owe this, and if you dont dispute it properly, they will try add charges or just send baillifs to put presure on. The reason why i suggest doing the above, is it was common practise for some baillfs to add these fees to accounts that were being paid, as an uplift

As an alternative, if they did attend and have proof, then email the following

Due to our financial circumstances, and our requirement to maintain my current years council tax, so as to avoid fees like this, we offer £ 2pw, to pay this debt up. Please provide bank details so we can set up a standing order.

Just my opinions

The debtor has posted that paperwork was left. Not sure how you think they can prove attendance at this late stage?

The debtor would actually have more chance disputing the grounds of the levy in the first place (on the basis that the car was levied in the debtors absence) & even more chance of getting £50 knocked off the fee.

B&S will argue that they are not required to attend with a van to charge the fee btw.

[Milo]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

You have not entered into an agreement with B&S

Unfortunately, the fact that you have made payments, indicates a willingness and acceptance on your part.

You can argue the following:

1. You did not agree in writing to any repayment plan
2. If for point of argument, you did enter into an agreement, £180 is way too excessive. In addition, B&S will not have attended with a van so the visit was not with "an intention" to remove goods. They will argue that they did intend to remove goods (despite turning up in a vehicle not fit for the purpose of removing a car)

A formal complaint to the council is needed here. Your car must be hidden in the meantime as it is a target for B&S. Ask the council to suspend recovery action whilst your complaint is investigated. Send your complaint to the CEO & copy it to B&S.

ST

There is something very serious here that I had missed earlier. If B & S had 'levied' upon Kats car then WHY are they not returning to remove the vehicle !! They should not be trying to just enforce the 'aborted removal' fee. Nice idea if they can get away with it.

KAT:

Regarding the car that was supposedly 'levied' upon last year, can you post back to let us know how much the car was roughly valued at (last year) and whether or not it is on finance.

[Crazy council]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

Mio and ST

can we discuss the above in another thread, i have some points a bit off the PO topic
http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...n-thread/page3

[Guest]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

Well spotted. I concur.

B&S will argue that as no-one was met by the bailiff, he decided to leave a letter, allowing a further short opportunity to pay. (how very nice of him)-He charged the head C fee all the same though.

They will argue that they visited "with a view to remove" but changed their mind because they're such nice guys.

[Guest]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

Mio and ST

can we discuss the above in another thread, i have some points a bit off the PO topic
http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...n-thread/page3

Your points are completely off topic.

The OP has a situation that falls under old legislation. The link you have provided is connected to new legislation. With respect, I fail to see the relevance or connection.

[Milo]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

Well spotted. I concur.

B&S will argue that as no-one was met by the bailiff, he decided to leave a letter, allowing a further short opportunity to pay. (how very nice of him)-He charged the head C fee all the same though.

They will argue that they visited "with a view to remove" but changed their mind because they're such nice guys.

The purpose of the 'levy' is to secure goods to cover the debt and bailiff fees. It is wholly wrong for B&S to decide 6 months later that 'we don't want the car any longer but we will take the aborted van fee instead'.

I will be interested to hear back as to the rough value of the vehicle etc.

There is one other point to consider here and this is that as there had been a 'levy' before 6th April then B&S cannot apply the £235 'enforcement fee' (outlined in the new regs). Instead, they are now restricted in being able to only charge an actual removal fee. No more 'aborted removal fees'.

Until we know further about the vehicle it needs to be kept away from the property.

PS: This is actually a very interesting query.

[Guest]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

As I am reading the breakdown, they levied (in the debtors absence) in July of last year. The debtor subsequently paid an instalment and then set up a standing order which lasted for 2 months. (last payment 15.10.13)

B&S then visited under Head C in December 13.

I personally can't see the LGO going against their actions, it would have to be small claims. That said, I think theres a good chance of both the LGO or small claims knocking £50 off the Head C charge.

NOTE: B&S are charging £180 Head C, not £235 Enforcement.

[Milo]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

NOTE: B&S are charging £180 Head C, not £235 Enforcement.

That's right. The point that I was making in my above post is that they are not permitted to charge £235 in the event of non payment of the £180.

[katscott]

Re: Baliff fees after debt as been paid to council

I have attached copies of the paper work that was put through the door for you to look at, im afraid your reply's are a little confusing to me. We no longer have the car that is on the inventory, i dont know if it makes a difference but the car was not a ford focus as stated on there paperwork it was a ford mondeo and no finance on the car.

Kat