Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

[Crazy council]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

The skewed idea would also give licence to anyone moving home to not pay outstanding council tax.

No it would not, but your missing the point. Look at the date he left the property, then the date of the end of his tenancy.. He would not have been in the property when the notice was served, notice., then LO letter, then LO at court. You can not serve at LO without serving the notice first. I have done this many, many many times. As an agent, my council systems had a tendency to do LOs, on the tenant, LL and agent,

They could simply claim "notice was served at the wrong address".

No, in this case, he would just have to show the judge that his tenancy had ended prior to the notice being sent. That he had no chance to defend the case, and no notice of the default. The Lo gets squashed, and the council have to re=apply, if required.

Just in relation to the legislation you pointed to, you have to understand the relevant case law as well, some of the legislation around that act is still being sorted out, especially the specific definitions of the terms. I did a post last week after reading some case law in relation charging periods for CT and NNDR accounts. --- possibly an important ruling that one if your entering administration IVA or debt relief

[wales01man]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

How would they be sure he left they don't send someone round and I would expect its an automated system,The problem might be that the CT is owed its the fees and costs we must all be concerned with

[Crazy council]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

Hi

How would they be sure he left

the new the tenacy was ending

I rang Bristol Council to ask what this was all about thinking surely it was just a mistake. Apparently as term 'officially' ended on the 21st June 2013 (news to me, I thought we ceased to become students when we graduated?) and our tenancy was until the 30th June 2013, there was 8 days of unpaid council tax they'd been chasing us for...around £31

.

His council tax is only due up to the last week he lives in the property, not the end of the tenacy, i dont know if there are special rules around students, but there the same as HIMOs,

[Guest]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

No it would not, but your missing the point. Look at the date he left the property, then the date of the end of his tenancy.. He would not have been in the property when the notice was served, notice., then LO letter, then LO at court. You can not serve at LO without serving the notice first. I have done this many, many many times. As an agent, my council systems had a tendency to do LOs, on the tenant, LL and agent,



No, in this case, he would just have to show the judge that his tenancy had ended prior to the notice being sent. That he had no chance to defend the case, and no notice of the default. The Lo gets squashed, and the council have to re=apply, if required.

Just in relation to the legislation you pointed to, you have to understand the relevant case law as well, some of the legislation around that act is still being sorted out, especially the specific definitions of the terms. I did a post last week after reading some case law in relation charging periods for CT and NNDR accounts. --- possibly an important ruling that one if your entering administration IVA or debt relief

So to clarify, you have moved home many, many, many times. You have not bothered to inform the council of your new address, you leave owing council tax, they go through the expense of obtaining a LO against you and then they happily agree to waiver this and all other charges when you finally get round to contacting them?

Yeah right. Please feel free to show us any case law to back this ridiculous claim up.

I know it's hard, but please try to understand this basic fact. I will try to put it in simple terms: The council are not mind readers nor do they use crystal balls. If you leave a property, owing council tax, the onus is on you to inform the council of a forwarding address. If you do not bother to do so, notice will be served to your last known place of abode. It is not the councils responsibility to discover your new address.

[bizzybob]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

Still might be worth pointing out to the council that the tenancy ended and the occupants gone before any paperwork was sent though, also that the amount owing was below what one would reasonably seek a liability order for, so the council should call off tossendales and accept the original sum as a settlement. Common Purpose rather than common sense will say no keep the dogs in there, as many councils will seek a LO for a penny.

[Crazy council]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

So to clarify, you have moved home many, many, many times. You have not bothered to inform the council of your new address, you leave owing council tax, they go through the expense of obtaining a LO against you and then they happily agree to waiver this and all other charges when you finally get round to contacting them?

No, I was a property manager/agent full time, for 10 years, during the change in the housing act, i am also a landlord myself. I have dealt with thousands of tenacys, done hundereds of evictions.

Yeah right. Please feel free to show us any case law to back this ridiculous claim up.

Its basic procedural rules, not a ridiculous claim.... In fact, i have used this RIDICULOUS CLAIM, probably about 40 times from 1997-2010..You can not do this without serving the notice of default properly. He had no idea he owed the CT, so would not have expected any further paperwork from them.....

I know it's hard, but please try to understand this basic fact. I will try to put it in simple terms

:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

Well,, i have an IQ of around 139. a lifelong interest in MAth, physics, electronics. but i do suffer from Dysgraphia, but i will give it a go

The council are not mind readers nor do they use crystal balls

mmmmm councils are diverse employers,, they dont discriminate against minds readers, and if people play with there crysital balls in there own time, its nothing to do with the council.

If you leave a property, owing council tax, the onus is on you to inform the council of a forwarding address. If you do not bother to do so, notice will be served to your last known place of abode. It is not the councils responsibility to discover your new address.

Thats the key, if he new he owed CT, he would need to be a mind reader to know the council had charged him..

[wales01man]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

Argue as much as you 2 like but the problem is the council will no doubt claim they carried out the right actions regarding sending paperwork. The OP needs to stop the Bailiff getting more involved .
If the CT is due fair enough unless they the OP can cancel that debt they need to seek some further advice .

[Crazy council]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

Argue as much as you 2 like but the problem is the council will no doubt claim they carried out the right actions regarding sending paperwork. The OP needs to stop the Bailiff getting more involved .
If the CT is due fair enough unless they the OP can cancel that debt they need to seek some further advice .

100% agree, see post 2.. My first response to the person.

Starving taxpayer....... I hope you realise i was just being a bit bawdy in my response to you, But the things i state are facts. :tinysmile_aha_t:

[Guest]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

Post 2 is a waste of time. As I've already attempted to explain and will try one final time to do so:

The OP may not "appeal" at this late stage, it's 21 days after the decision if you want to go through the High Court or within 3 months for a judicial review (both of which would require professional legal advice)

A liability order may be "set aside" but this method is totally dependant on the council being willing to make the application to the magistrates.

With regards the issue of notice being served, please refer to section 2(1) of the aforementioned Administration & Enforcement regs:

2. (1) Where any notice which is required or authorised by these Regulations to be given to or served on any person falls to be given or served by or on behalf of the Common Council it may be given or served in any manner in which it might be given or served under section 233 of the Local Government Act 1972(1) if the Common Council were a local authority within the meaning of that section.

Section 233(4) states;

(4)For the purposes of this section and of section 26 of the M1Interpretation Act 1889 (service of documents by post) in its application to this section, the proper address of any person to or on whom a document is to be given or served shall be his last known address, except that—(a)in the case of a body corporate or their secretary or clerk, it shall be the address of the registered or principal office of that body;
(b)in the case of a partnership or a person having the control or management of the partnership business, it shall be that of the principal office of the partnership;
and for the purposes of this subsection the principal office of a company registered outside the United Kingdom or of a partnership carrying on business outside the United Kingdom shall be their principal office within the United Kingdom.

So CC's other argument is now blown into the water. The correct course of action is as post #3, ie a formal complaint to the CEO and escalated to an LGO complaint if no joy from the CEO. All recovery action to be placed on hold whilst the complaint is investigated. Rossendales could well leave the OP alone and go after one of the other 5 liable people on the back of the complaint.

[Crazy council]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

The OP may not "appeal" at this late stage, it's 21 days after the decision if you want to go through the High Court or within 3 months for a judicial review (both of which would require professional legal advice)... A liability order may be "set aside" but this method is totally dependant on the council being willing to make the application to the magistrates.

Rubbish, read what i said in the second post

I think, this is one of the rear circumstances were you could appeal the liability order

and the rear circumstance,, notice served after he had left the property, thinking his CT was up to date... Its one of the ONLY reasons you automatically get it.......... And you don't need to appeal it, just swear at the court and its set aside.

BTW. Have been through the process of appeal and LO out of time, ( 5 years after ). you require permission from the high court prior to your appeal.

So CC's other argument is now blown into the water.

???????? what, :tinysmile_aha_t:

The correct course of action is as post #3, ie a formal complaint to the CEO and escalated to an LGO complaint if no joy from the CEO.

No, waste of time, will take him over 6 month to go this route. Firslty, is collections and recoverys he wants to be dealing with not the CEO, Then there is a qualifying process prior to LGO taking it on.

All recovery action to be placed on hold whilst the complaint is investigated. Rossendales could well leave the OP alone and go after one of the other 5 liable people on the back of the complaint

Wow there ......... were did you get this from..... Why do you think complaining about a LO would suspend further action on the account. There is not legal principle behind that. In this case, as soon as he notifys the council as sugested in my post. they will suspend action, but the fastest way will be through the court.

OP. fax the court were the LO was gained. Tell them you had no notice becuase you had left, and considered the CT paid. Fax them your tenacy agreement, current addresss and date you moved back, Tell them that the first notice was contact from the baillifs. Tell them that you wish to disagree with the LO, but never had chance.. Explain to them that its only 8 days CT, for after you left.... That will do it...

[Guest]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

I knew you wouldn't let it go.

You've gone from "am not sure" in post #2 to "the things I state are facts" in post #23.

You clearly wouldn't know a fact if one hit you in the face & will not accept when you're wrong.

I'm done arguing with you. The real facts are in the thread for all to see

[Guest]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

OP before taking any more notice of the ramblings from this cretin, the following link may be of use:

http://www.harrow.gov.uk/info/200167..._being_granted

[Crazy council]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

You've gone from "am not sure" in post #2 to "the things I state are facts" in post #23

Thats because i rung someone to check its still valid..

You clearly wouldn't know a fact if one hit you in the face & will not accept when you're wrong. I'm done arguing with you. The real facts are in the thread for all to see

Lol... really Lol... have done allright for myself.... in the past 5 year, i have fought and beat, as a LIP, the largest accountancy firm in teh world, in a claim for 1/4 million ( really ). An insurance co, to get a claim from £ 7k to £ 53k... as well as 3 other i can not mention.

I knew you wouldn't let it go.

Not because i want to argue with you, its because your miss-directing the poster.... . Now, in fairness ST, i have explained my experience, so the OP can make a judgment on what advise to take.

Not being funny here... And only because you have told him am wrong....... What's your experience of these matters

I stand by what i said to be both valid and correct ?

[Crazy council]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

OP before taking any more notice of the ramblings from this cretin, the following link may be of use:

http://www.harrow.gov.uk/info/200167..._being_granted

Lol, find that with a google search did we... what relevance do you think that statement has in relation to his circumstances. Thats about appealing a properly served LO... cretin... have been called a lot worse,, hell, i probably deserve to be called a lot worse.

[wales01man]

Re: Student Bristol council tax Rossendales

Surely its a properly served L.0 as far as the Court was aware at the time?
With all the Info being given the OP must decide their own course of action I for one would be interested in the Result