Bailiff help.. JBW group

[Aleximo]

Hi All,

I just have a few queries that I wanted to ask. Ill start with my story...

Me and my partner moved into our flat on the 23rd August 2013 and enrolled on a Masters course to study on the 16th September 2013. We were charged by Hounslow council £194.14 for the dates where we were not exempt students. This sum also includes court fees as due to the nature of our courses it took a substantial amount of time to get hold of the right letters and to have all these things processed. Upon recieving the bill from the council on the 27th January 2014 I filled in the direct debit agreement and posted it off on the 28th January 2014 by 1st class royal mail.

I believed everything to be all sorted and awaited the money to be taken from my account. Having set up the direct debit in an account I use solely for DD's I dont check the account on a daily basis.

So to my suprise I recieved a JBW letter on 2nd April 2014 stating that the amount of £236.64 remains unpaid (Im presuming they have added on some sort of cost from the original £194.14??) and that they had tried previous attempts to contact me by letter and visits to the premisis. Although This is the first letter I have recieved from them and the first contact entirely. I was still under the understanding that the Direct debit had been or was being processed by Hounslow Council and hadn't heard of JBW until that day.

Upon recieving this letter me and my partner took action and contacted the council who confirmed that there was an outstanding bill of £194.14 which had been passed to JBW and that they had made an error and no direct debit was set up. Whether they had recieved my application she did not say.

After the conversation the council informed me to email them with all the information and that they will get the debt back from JBW for us to pay however this may take up to two weeks.

Me and my partner wrote this letter to Hounslow Council below:

Dear Sir/ Madam,

I spoke with a very helpful agent at the Hounslow Revenue Service this
morning that advised we email you regarding the outstanding balance on
our account.
My partner and I have both been in full time education since the 16
September 2013 and have a registered exemption with Hounslow. We
understand that we are still liable to pay tax from when we moved into our
property on the 23 August 2013 until the 16 September 2013 when we
enrolled on our course. Because there were multiple delays and issues
from our university in providing letters of study in a timely manner with the
right information, we also understand that fees were incurred by the
council, that we are happy to pay. The agent I spoke to confirmed that our
outstanding balance is £194.14 to which I have a bill dated 27 January,
when our exemption was finally confirmed. Upon receiving this bill at the
end of January, ************ filled out the paperwork included with the
bill to pay by direct debit and posted it to the council. We were alarmed
yesterday when we received a letter from JBW Judicial Services Group
saying that our outstanding balance, which we thought we had been
paying via direct debit, had been transferred to a debt collection agency.
The council agent I spoke with this morning confirmed that somehow our
direct debit was never processed in error and recommended that I write to
you in order to have our balance brought back to Hounslow Council from
JBW so we can pay it. We are very keen to have this matter resolved and
taken care of, indeed we thought it was. We would be grateful if you would
help us resolve this matter in as quick and timely a manner as possible.
We would like to get the balance cleared as soon as possible.
Yours Faithfully

----I also decided to CC JBW with a copy of this message and to also inform them with their own email which is here:

'Dear Sir/Madam
Account Reference: *******


We received your letter stating that we, the tenants of Flat *****, have an outstanding council tax balance.


Having opened the letter it came as quite a surprise having sent off direct debit forms to the council in January I had presumed this matter resolved however, upon calling Hounslow Council today there had been a mistake on the account and the agent confirmed the direct debit had never been set up. This has led to the debt being passed to you. The council have advised us that they will be taking the debt back for us to pay in instalments or in full through Hounslow Council although this matter can take up to two weeks to be resolved.


I have attached a pdf copy of the letter dated and sent today the 10 April 2014 to Hounslow Council regarding this debt.


As this case is in dispute which we are trying to get resolved through Hounslow Council. I would like your full cooperation to cease any further enforcement actions that are to be enforced on the premises of Flat **********************.


We look forward to hearing from you shortly and would very much appreciate your assistance and cooperation whilst this matter is resolved with Hounslow Council.


Yours Faithfully'

----These emails were all sent on the 10th April 2014. However, we have still recieved no response from either Hounslow Council or JBW.

Today the 15th April 2014 the JBW Enforcement agents posted a filled in form through the door stating that this was an enforcement notice and that on top of the original £236.64 we now owe £471.64.

Having recieved this letter stating a rather large sum. My Partner immediately phoned the council again to find out what was going on. The council have advised her that the email we sent on the 10th is in a queue and will probably be responded to on Monday. She then rang JBW who informed her that there was nothing she could do and that until the council contact them the enforcement officers will keep on coming.

This is everything that has happened so far. I really need help to see if what we have done is correct?

Will JBW keep coming and charging more and more and more?? What happens if it takes longer for the council to sort this mess? OR if they on Monday turn round and tell us they cannot take back the £194.14 debt even though they have admitted that the DD was never set up in the first place does this mean Ill then be faced with paying the even bigger £471.64 sum of money or the possibility of more because I have waited for Hounslow Council to respond? I write down everything and wrote the date I posted the DD Application on the bill so I know it was posted and sent.

Im just slightly worried that this will, in a matter of days just spiral out of control..

If anyone could offer any advice or any help or anything to calm us both that would be entirely grateful.

Many thanks,

Aleximo

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff help.. JBW group

Basically, if the council has admitted to errors or shortcomings on their part which has resulted in them wrongfully obtaining a Council Tax Liability Order which they have then passed to JBW, then the council should really recall the Liability Order immediately, not wait until they reach your email in the queue.

As for JBW, if they were made aware an error had been made by the council and they continued with enforcement regardless, even though commonsense should have told them to contact the council and seek confirmation of the error and arrangements the council were making in respect of the arrears, it could be argued JBW's actions from that point forward are vexatious.

I would be inclined to get back to the council and speak to someone holding senior position about this. There is no way you should have to pay any fees to JBW or them hassling you as fault lies with the council.

[seduraed]

Re: Bailiff help.. JBW group

Tske your mobile phone and record the conversation.

[Aleximo]

Re: Bailiff help.. JBW group

Hi and thanks for both the replies. I have been in long conversations with the council today about all of this getting names and numbers along the way for records.

So in regards to the Direct debit. They have told me that there is a direct debit on the account which was recieved in January. However the debt they say was passed to JBW at the end of December whilst we were trying to sort out our student enrollment exemptions.

The problem I have is why I wasnt notified that the bill had been passed to debt collectors and why it has taken JBW from the end of December to last week to get in touch and inform me that there was a debt.... which in their first letter stated they had tried contacting me before although we have both never recieved anything from them...

The next problem I have is that as the council tax was in both mine and my partners name it was passed with both our names to JBW (have checked with council that this is the case) but upon ringing JBW 15 minutes ago they have informed me that as it is only my partners name on the letter they cannot give me any information without her consent via email or by calling. Unfortunately for me she is now away in Denmark until Saturday..... although I have managed to get her to send an email in the airport luckily!

Any ideas what to do next?

What happens if more Bailiffs come and demand even more money? Even though Iam trying to sort this out will it be classed as being disputed so the demands wont keep on rising?

Many thanks

[Aleximo]

Re: Bailiff help.. JBW group

Also adding to the above message..

My first letter was recieved on the 10th April 2014 however is dated 2nd April 2014.. Does this mean that it is before the new regulations came in to force?

I also wondered that the fees I was charged later on for the enforcement agent were from after 6th April. Should all fees for this account be sticking to old regulations or do they change according to new letters recieved?

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff help.. JBW group

It is looking very much that London Borough of Hounslow has failed to follow correct procedures and due legal process, which is of concern. If they have not followed the steps the law requires them to take before going to court and served you with the documents the law requires them to serve, potentially, their actions are unlawful.

If London Borough of Hounslow were tardy in their processing of a bill for a period you were not exempt from paying CT, but decided to obtain a Liability Order instead, again, this may be unlawful and, also, an abuse of the legal process.

I would strongly advise you to seek professional legal advice from a Law Centre, if there is one near to where you live, who can provide free or very low-cost legal advice/assistance.

[Aleximo]

Re: Bailiff help.. JBW group

Thanks,

Im currently taking a look at the court summons sent in december. It was for a total sum from 23rd august 2013 - 31st March 2014. for £835.13

However the court date was set as the 20th January 2014. I luckily wrote down the date my institution gave me the letters and I posted them on the 11th January 2014. The council say they then recieved the letters and discounted the exemption leaving the final £194.14. The next correspondence from them was on the 27th January after the court date telling me I had £194.14 payable to them which is when I filled out the DD form and sent it the next day.....

I dont understand why the council passed the debt to JBW before the court date... am I not understanding something?

Thanks

[Aleximo]

Re: Bailiff help.. JBW group

So having spoken to the Council... The debt was transferred after the court date. It was transferred on the 28th January 2014. Although, they having recieved my exemption letters I believed another bill should have immediately been sent out. I believe the court date on the 20th January 2014 happened for the remaining amount of £194.14 without our knowledge. We never recieved anything after the court date telling us of the precedings of the court or any other letters/information. The next correspondance from the council was a council tax bill for £194.14 recieved on the 27th January 2014 one day before this debt was transferred to JBW. I immediately on the 27th January 2014 filled in the DD and sent it off willing to pay the amount it said I owed. However this was recieved but as the debt had been transferred was not acted upon as there was a clear balance..

The whole big picture is now starting to add up. Along with speaking to the council tax man he said it did seem like I had good grounds to contest it.

Im now going to call the JBW group and find out where their other letters went and/if they sent any before last week at all. Im also thinking whether to pay the bill in its entirety and then contest it and go to Citizens advice Bureau? and see if I can get the Council to refund the remaining amound?

Thanks

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiff help.. JBW group

It would be wise to put JBW to strict proof as to dates, etc.. If these do not tally with dates given to you by London Borough of Hounslow, it is pretty clear someone, somewhere needs to sort out their filing system or start being straight with you.