Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

[KN76]

Hi All,

I am currently battling Equita re an outstanding council tax bill. I owe the money and have told the council I will pay this month. I have asked the council to take back the debt from the bailiff on the grounds of my partner's mental health problem. They have refused. The bailiff came today (first visit) and posted a little note that says...

I called to day to execute a liability order / Warrant of control issued to us by out client (space with handwritten name of the council). I am authorised by the court to remove goods/vehicle to satisfy the outstanding balance of £1233.30.

If you fail to contact me in the next 24 hours I will have no alternative but to re-attend your property to remove your goods for sale.

To avoid any action please contact me on etc.

Then there is a breakdown of the fees
Debt 955.80
Court costs -
Compliance fee 42.50
Enforcement 235.00
Total 1233.30

The note doesn't say that they have levied anything. This is their first visit although I have had 2 letters sent by post. They were not hand delivered. It also isn't dated.

My question is do they have to say if they have levied distress? Only my partner's work van was outside which is registered to his name. The debt is only in my name. Does this make a difference? I know they can't take his van as he uses it for work etc

Is the paperwork valid if he hasn't dated it? The other dates they reckon they came one of us was at home. Apparently they write a description of the house to prove they have been (google street view??).

I have written asking for a breakdown of the charges and have written a letter for my partner to give to the bailiff (through the door) decalring his vulnerability. I am cc'ing both letters to the council also stating they have vicarious liability for the actions of their agents etc?

Is there anything else I should do? Thanks in advance for any help. Is it worth threatening the LA with the LGO because they haven't taken it back?

K

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

Hello KN76 and welcome to the forum.

For the enforcement agent not to have dated the letter that he/she put through your letterbox is just an irregularity, and if he she does visit again there will be no more charges, unless they do take control of any goods.

With the new legislation it is vital that you engage with the enforcement agent at your ealiest opportunity to discuss a payment arrangement.

The warrant of control is only against you, thus your partner's health issues (sorry to sound horrible) are only of marginal importance, besides he does work and sounds quite independent. But do explin how and why you would consider your partner a "vulnerable" individual.

I do not see how complaining to the LA about the behaviour of the Enforcement Agent is going to help, since so far, they (the EA) have done nothing wrong, except not dating an attendance letter.

[KN76]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

Hello KN76 and welcome to the forum.

For the enforcement agent not to have dated the letter that he/she put through your letterbox is just an irregularity, and if he she does visit again there will be no more charges, unless they do take control of any goods.

With the new legislation it is vital that you engage with the enforcement agent at your ealiest opportunity to discuss a payment arrangement.

The warrant of control is only against you, thus your partner's health issues (sorry to sound horrible) are only of marginal importance, besides he does work and sounds quite independent. But do explin how and why you would consider your partner a "vulnerable" individual.

I do not see how complaining to the LA about the behaviour of the Enforcement Agent is going to help, since so far, they (the EA) have done nothing wrong, except not dating an attendance letter.

Thanks for your reply.

They also have only attended once.

My partner works for himself about 1 day a week because of his severe panic attacks and depression.

Can they levy his van? its registered in his name.

Thanks
K

[ploddertom]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

When the Liability Order was granted was your partner living with you?

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

Thanks for your reply.

They also have only attended once.

My partner works for himself about 1 day a week because of his severe panic attacks and depression.

Can they levy his van? its registered in his name.

Thanks
K

No they can not, unless you have an interest in it.

[Guest]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

Hello KN76 and welcome to the forum.

For the enforcement agent not to have dated the letter that he/she put through your letterbox is just an irregularity, and if he she does visit again there will be no more charges, unless they do take control of any goods.

With the new legislation it is vital that you engage with the enforcement agent at your ealiest opportunity to discuss a payment arrangement.

The warrant of control is only against you, thus your partner's health issues (sorry to sound horrible) are only of marginal importance, besides he does work and sounds quite independent. But do explin how and why you would consider your partner a "vulnerable" individual.

I do not see how complaining to the LA about the behaviour of the Enforcement Agent is going to help, since so far, they (the EA) have done nothing wrong, except not dating an attendance letter.

Now that the visit fee has been incurred, there is no real pressure on the debtor to deal with the EA. PROVIDED she doesn't allow them access to take control of goods. They can return as many time as they want but no more charges can be applied.

As long as a vehicle cannot be reached, the debtor is perfectly entitled to advise the council that she will be dealing with them directly as she indicated she would like to do in post #1.

She doesn't have to allow the EA access, he can't charge her any more fees and she is not legally bound to deal with him.

[Guest]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

I would add that if the OP wants to deal directly with the council, park the van away from the house, preferably on private land (a neighbours drive)

[KN76]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

Thanks for all of your advice! They have said I can pay them before the end of the month which I should manage ok. I will pay the council though. Can the bailiff enforce her fees? I am unsure of the new system!

[Guest]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

Provided that no goods are in the custody of the law, the EA cannot enforce his fees.

Furthermore, I would question whether he is entitled to charge £42.50 for a compliance fee. The figure suggests that he is claiming to have visited you twice under the previous legislation. If that were the case, he would be entitled to charge £42.50. If he has not previously visited, he cannot charge £42.50.

I would take this up with the council and use it as your excuse to not be prepared to deal with Equita

[bizzybob]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

Be very careful and make sure the EA cannot "Take Control" of squat

[KN76]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

Hi everyone!

Just to update on this. The full council tax has been paid to the council, I have nothing outstanding. I know the bailiff will ring me tomorrow about the account. When I tell her I have paid, she is going to try to get the fees out of me. Do I have to pay her fees? There is no levy and she doesn't have any of my goods in her possession.

Also she seems to have applied fees under the old and new system. Can she do that?

I just want to feel confident when I tell her I have paid the council. Under the old regs I would just tell her to do one because the liability order was for the council's debt not the bailiff fees! Is this still the case?

Thanks in advance,

k

[Guest]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

I would say that yes, enforcement can continue. There is huge debate elsewhere regarding this issue. I have yet to satisfy myself entirely that any regulations are clear on this. My feeling is that the MOJ were aware of possible loopholes in previous legislation and will have acted to tighten up in the new regs. As these are new regulations, nobody has attempted to try this yet so there are no precedents. The important regulations to consider are:

Par 50.2(b) of the TCE Act 2007- "money taken in exercise of the power"

Would you consider paying the council directly as the above? I wouldn't, especially in the context of the regulation, which is concerned with proceeds. This would suggest the paragraph is concerned with anything that the EA has obtained during the act of enforcement.

Of more concern is regulation 4 of the Taking Control of Goods (fees) Regulations 2014:
4. (1) — The enforcement agent may recover from the debtor the fees indicated in the Schedule in accordance with this regulation and regulations 11, 12, 13, 16 and 17, by reference to the stage, or stages, of enforcement for which enforcement-related services have been supplied.
(2) The fees referred to in paragraph (1) may be recovered out of proceeds.
(3) The enforcement agent may recover under this regulation the whole fee provided in the Schedule for a stage where the amount outstanding is paid after the commencement, but before the completion, of that stage.

In addition, Regulation 17 of the same Regs states:

. (1) The enforcement agent may not recover fees or disbursements from the debtor in relation to any stage of enforcement undertaken at a time when the relevant enforcement power has ceased to be exercisable.
(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply where the enforcement power ceases to be exercisable because the debtor has paid the amount outstanding or that amount has been recovered from proceeds or otherwise

My feeling is that the EA will continue to enforce for her fees.

As stated previously, provided she is not able to take control of goods, she can visit as many times as she wants but cannot charge you any more fees. It depends on how strong your nerves are and how long you are prepared to go. There is of course nothing stopping the bailiff waiting 6 months or more and then catching you unaware with a vehicle on the drive.

[bluebottle]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

With regard to the reference made to Google Street View, the reality is that there is nothing to stop an EA or civil enforcement company going onto Google Street View, noting the GPS co-ordinates and description of a home and then claiming to have visited. When put to strict proof and having it pointed out that they could have obtained their data from Google Street View, civil enforcement companies have thrown a hissy fit threatening debtors with The Kraken, plagues, etc.. The fact is that civil enforcement companies have been getting away with questionable behaviour for too long. A director of one civil enforcement company was branded a liar by a judge. The civil enforcement industry has to realise time was called in the Last Chance Saloon on 6 April 2014. They have no more second chances, no matter how much the industry wishes to convince itself and the public that it has changed for the better.

[KN76]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

As stated previously, provided she is not able to take control of goods, she can visit as many times as she wants but cannot charge you any more fees. It depends on how strong your nerves are and how long you are prepared to go. There is of course nothing stopping the bailiff waiting 6 months or more and then catching you unaware with a vehicle on the drive.

Hiya,

Thanks for your reply.

There are no vehicles registered to me. Can she attempt to clamp my parter's vehicles? Also does the action still have to be proportionate or can she do what she likes?

What about the apparent mix of old and new charges? £42.50 smells like 1st and 2nd visit fees to me but the rest is the new fees? The first letter I got was before Christmas, therefore it was with the bailiff before the new regulations.

I am still confused! Shall I front it out or pay? An extra £300 would cripple us this month AND we have £4K mortgage arrears. I would rather it went off that!

Thanks

K

[Guest]

Re: Equita Bailiff - Vulnerable household and dodgy paperwork

I notice on the other board that you mentioned you had contacted the council regarding vulnerability.

You could write a formal complaint to the CEO of your council claiming that this wasn't addressed. Ask for enforcement to be suspended whilst your complaint is being investigated.

The fees are correct.

As long as your partner can prove the vehicles are his then she shouldn't be able to do anything. this won't necessarily stop her trying though.

Fronting it out has to be your decision. Perhaps park the vehicles away from the house over the next week or so & see what the complaint brings?

Edit-Sorry, to clarify, old fees class as the compliance stage so one visit = £24.50 & 2 visits = £42.50. If they've only visited once previously then add that to your complaint.