Partners Fine (No Insurance/Tax) / Marstons~HELP!

[hocuspocus]

Hi there,

Just after a bit of advice really.

My partner was fined at court over 3 years ago for not having Insurance (and not having tax as well as far as I remember)
The court set up payments to be made from his JSA as he was unemployed at the time, I believe the fine was around £500.

After various house moves and and bouts of unemployment/jobs etc he received a "Further Steps" letter from the court dated 7th February 2014,stating he still owed £291.
He was supposed to ring the court and arrange to pay it in a few installments as he currently only works part time and I don't work as we have a 2 year old daughter and we can't afford to pay £291 in one go.

Due to bad memory, late nights/early mornings for work and various other things he forgot to contact them (!)
So now we have had a red "Final Notice" shoved through the door at around 8am from Marstons stating that £591 is due in full today or they will return at 7pm to remove goods!

So I am sitting here wondering what are we supposed to do as we don't have that kind of money (he doesn't even get paid that much a month!)

Can the bailiffs legally force their way into our home and take items? (we would never let them in and our door is always locked to prevent our daughter escaping)

I understand the bailiff has added charges but the debt is now more than it originally was surely they can't do that?

Any advice on what to do / how to deal with this would be greatly appreciated!

Just on a side note, the notice says they charge 3% handling fee for credit cards and up to £1 fee for debit cards, I thought this was illegal?

Thank you in advance!

[ploddertom]

Re: Partners Fine (No Insurance/Tax) / Marstons~HELP!

You have unfortunately found out the hard way what happens if you don't respond to the Court letters and it will be hard to argue with them. As it is for a criminal fine then there is possibility of them forcing entry but this should only be if he he fails to to respond to them - they will class that as wilful evasion. As the fine is against him then they may only seize goods that belong to the debtor + they may not seize goods belonging to a child. The assumption therefore has to be that the only goods he has are the clothes he stands up in as everything else belongs to you.

Are you still claiming any benefits? Is there anyone in the household that is ill or has a disability?

Although they won't tell you this Marstons are allowed to let you pay in instalments - probably 6 months maximum. They don't like you knowing this as they themselves don't get paid until the Court Order is satisfied.

[hocuspocus]

Re: Partners Fine (No Insurance/Tax) / Marstons~HELP!

You have unfortunately found out the hard way what happens if you don't respond to the Court letters and it will be hard to argue with them. As it is for a criminal fine then there is possibility of them forcing entry but this should only be if he he fails to to respond to them - they will class that as wilful evasion. As the fine is against him then they may only seize goods that belong to the debtor + they may not seize goods belonging to a child. The assumption therefore has to be that the only goods he has are the clothes he stands up in as everything else belongs to you.

Are you still claiming any benefits? Is there anyone in the household that is ill or has a disability?

Although they won't tell you this Marstons are allowed to let you pay in instalments - probably 6 months maximum. They don't like you knowing this as they themselves don't get paid until the Court Order is satisfied.

Hi Thanks for the reply
At the moment we are only claiming Housing Benefit , Child and Working Tax credits.

He may actually be at work when they are supposed to come back, so if that happens I should just say he's not here and everything in the house is owned by me? (through letterbox) I wont open the door.
Can they break in if no one is home or if it just myself and our daughter?

Sorry but I am getting increasingly more stressed and worried about this.

[hocuspocus]

Re: Partners Fine (No Insurance/Tax) / Marstons~HELP!

This may sound a bit odd as well, but could he contact the court today and ask them to do an attachment to earnings?In all honesty I don't know why they didn't just do that

[ploddertom]

Re: Partners Fine (No Insurance/Tax) / Marstons~HELP!

This may sound a bit odd as well, but could he contact the court today and ask them to do an attachment to earnings?In all honesty I don't know why they didn't just do that

He could try, there is certainly no harm in that, he will need to ask to speak to the Fines officer or Court Manager. They may say however that as he failed to get in touch after the Final Steps Notice they cannot help him now. He should try pointing out that there has been a change in his circumstances since he was fined and see if they do anything on that but it is going to be hard.

[hocuspocus]

Re: Partners Fine (No Insurance/Tax) / Marstons~HELP!

He could try, there is certainly no harm in that, he will need to ask to speak to the Fines officer or Court Manager. They may say however that as he failed to get in touch after the Final Steps Notice they cannot help him now. He should try pointing out that there has been a change in his circumstances since he was fined and see if they do anything on that but it is going to be hard.

We have been told elsewhere we fall into the vulnerable person category as we are in receipt of HB and in social housing and the court has to cease allowing bailiffs contact with us.

I contacted the court (on partners behalf) and they have told me there is nothing they can do to recall the distress warrant unless it was issued in error, which essentially it was but the guy on the telephone wouldn't do it even though I explained our situation, offered to do Attachment to earnings and was refused, have asked for a manager to call me back.

The court asked me if we had spoken to the bailiffs, which I said yes as partner contacted their office and the mobile number on the notice and all he got was very rude abusive people telling him "tough ****, doesn't matter if you are on benefits we are bringing the locksmith"

[ploddertom]

Re: Partners Fine (No Insurance/Tax) / Marstons~HELP!

Just because you are on HB & in social does not in itself make you vulnerable at all. What they have forgotten to tell you is that you may be "potentially" vulnerable but in this case I think you will find it does not apply.

Have you tried involving your MP - it is one more avenue worth exploring?

[Joe Horner]

Re: Partners Fine (No Insurance/Tax) / Marstons~HELP!

Hi Hocuspocus, just signed up because my son had a similar problem (defaulted compensation order, didn't receive / respond to the further steps notice, bailiffs involved with a huge increase in the debt)

I only made contact with him in January after 18 years, and all this went back to August last year, so it was a bit of a surprise when he posted something on FB last Sunday suggesting he might have a serious problem.

I advised him to speak to the Court fines officer, which he did on Monday but got told "we can't withdraw". In his case, they didn't even admit to being able to withdraw one if a mistake had been made!

Meanwhile, I was looking into the situation and found that they can withdraw warrants when there's been a mistake in their issue, and that the relevant law (The Courts Act 2003, Schedule 5 para 40A) includes the provision that withdrawal is possible if:

"(b)the fines officer is satisfied that the warrant was issued by mistake, including in particular a mistake made in consequence of the non-disclosure or misrepresentation of a material fact. "

The fact he didn't respond to the further steps notice means that there was a "non-disclosure [...] of a material fact" in relation to your current means, and the Act doesn't rule out non-disclosure which is the fault of the defaulter.

I ran off a quick letter to the Court manager (not the fines officer), which I sent to him to sign and hand in, and got a call from the Central Fines Office for the area within about 2 hours. Unfortunately I missed the call, so called them back this morning and they withdrew the warrant today and agreed a new installment plan with him.

A lot of the "letter that worked" doesn't apply in your case, but I've attached a "sanitised" copy which may give you an idea of a possible approach to take with the court concerned.

At the end of the day, they're going to collect their fine a lot more quickly if he's not having to cover bailiff fees as well!