Council aware of vulnerability now sent bailiffs for rates arrears

[Tango lily]

A friend was a sole trader who stopped trading a year ago as he was unable to pay business rates arrears of £20k. Family wrote to council asking them to consider remit the arrears. Reasons given were 1. He was very depressed and was unable to care for himself, not eating, keeping himself clean. ( since much worse)
2. He had been self employed at the same address since 1974 and is now 58 years old and only gets income based JSA.
3. He has no property, lives in a bedsit nothing of value
When he thought he may be able to sell the business asked council if they would accept 10k if he sold it ( rented premises) This never happened but they said it would not be accepted and would peruse the whole debt. Relatives believe he is vulnerable according to their policy due to depression and recently unemployed. They refused to remit any of the arrears stating he was capable of repaying the debt, no explanation why they decided this. He wrote back (family on his behalf) offering £6 a week from his benefit ( they would pay this). This was 9 months ago and they never replied. Now bailiffs have visited his previous address demanding payment with a liability order from 2 years ago. The council have taken no notice of his state of mind or inability to pay. They are fearful that he might do something stupid. He is now drinking as well. Can anything more be done regarding council? He paid rent etc so no other creditors. Fully aware that rates were his responsibility but they allowed this to continue for 7 years?

[Milo]

Re: Council aware of vulnerability now sent bailiffs for rates arrears

Tango,

I am sorry to hear of your friends problem. He is very fortunate to have such a good caring friend.

I am sorry but in order to give a helpful response it is necessary to ask a few questions.

You say that your friend was a sole trader. Does he still have the business property and is it still incurring a non domestic rates bill?

You have also mentioned that an offer of £10k was suggested to the council and this would come from the sale of the business. Has there been any development on the sale ?

It is not necessary to provide too many personal details but it would be helpful to know whether your friend has any business assets that can either be sold or worryingly, 'seized by the bailiff'

When relatives contacted the council did they provide any EVIDENCE that your friend was 'vulnerable' (such as a letter from his doctor) etc?

Lastly, my immediate thought (and this is why it is important to know the answers to the above questions) is that your friend should simply petition for his own bankruptcy. Given that he lives in a bedsit with little personal assets the bankruptcy would be very simple and would be completed within just one year.

[wales01man]

Re: Council aware of vulnerability now sent bailiffs for rates arrears

how did the debt get to be 20k?

[bluebottle]

Re: Council aware of vulnerability now sent bailiffs for rates arrears

Is your friend capable of administering his own affairs within the meaning of the Mental Capacity Act and Mental Health Act? If not and he is sectioned, he would then come under the jurisdiction of the Office of the Public Guardian and Court of Protection. This would provide him with some form of protection and allow the appointment of a Receiver to look after any debts and financial affairs.

If he is not at a point where he is likely to be sectioned, then Milo's advice would seem to be a more practical route to follow.

[Tango lily]

Re: Council aware of vulnerability now sent bailiffs for rates arrears

Thanks for your time in reply to request for further info
he stopped trading cutover 2012
the sale of business did not occur as landlord would not renew lease as he wanted premises for his business
at the time no GP letter included as he would not visit one . He has recently though. They never asked for evidence although other criteria they listed was proven on a few counts, such as recent relationship breakdown, recently unemployed, 4 page detailed letter sent explaining his situation. Income based jsa is means tested so proof of his inability to pay. They never asked to see him to discuss arrears or advice him ( as far as unoped mail indicated) He wants to avoid bankruptcy as he will not accept it is for the better trying to respect his wishes read somewhere that council should at least consider taking up offers of payments from benefits. I know family would make offer of about 5k to settle arrears as well. As it stands they will not get a penny as he cannot offer what he does not have. Perusing him again with bailiffs costs the local taxpayer money as well. If so then maybe times will improve in the future to repay more and his pride not wounded . A later post asks how the debt got to be so much. He has 7 liability orders. Numerous bailiffs to business but nothing of real value to take . One statutory demand in 2008 but dismissed in court for some unknown reason. He accepts it was his responsibility. What happened was other creditors put most pressure on him so whoever knocked the loudest got the money. Always paid rent suppliers. Etc Should council take a bit of responsibility for allowing things to go on for almost 6 years with only the odd payment to bailiffs? Was living at premises until stopped trading in a caravan. Has lost all assets debt started after burglary where £1000's stock taken and no insurance. Former employee was stealing and within a few days of sacking him thieves struck. He once prided himself on paying bills promptly but he must have become overwhelmed and depression and alcohol crept into the situation. Family found sackfuls of unopened letters, rotting food unhygienic living arrangements etc.

A friend was a sole trader who stopped trading a year ago as he was unable to pay business rates arrears of £20k. Family wrote to council asking them to consider remit the arrears. Reasons given were 1. He was very depressed and was unable to care for himself, not eating, keeping himself clean. ( since much worse)
2. He had been self employed at the same address since 1974 and is now 58 years old and only gets income based JSA.
3. He has no property, lives in a bedsit nothing of value
When he thought he may be able to sell the business asked council if they would accept 10k if he sold it ( rented premises) This never happened but they said it would not be accepted and would peruse the whole debt. Relatives believe he is vulnerable according to their policy due to depression and recently unemployed. They refused to remit any of the arrears stating he was capable of repaying the debt, no explanation why they decided this. He wrote back (family on his behalf) offering £6 a week from his benefit ( they would pay this). This was 9 months ago and they never replied. Now bailiffs have visited his previous address demanding payment with a liability order from 2 years ago. The council have taken no notice of his state of mind or inability to pay. They are fearful that he might do something stupid. He is now drinking as well. Can anything more be done regarding council? He paid rent etc so no other creditors. Fully aware that rates were his responsibility but they allowed this to continue for 7 years?

[Tango lily]

Re: Council aware of vulnerability now sent bailiffs for rates arrears

I believe it occurred because other creditors put most pressure on him. Council sent bailiffs and he gave the odd 200 quid to them. This went on for over 6 years. The council have not even replied to offer of payment from benefits. He understands they are not a charity but bottom line is he cannot pay. He asked them to make him banktrupt k but no reply. It seems they will string him along forever hoping his ability to pay in the future improves.? Suppose they get lots of non genuine letters claiming hardship but evidence is abundant really.

[wales01man]

Re: Council aware of vulnerability now sent bailiffs for rates arrears

Bailiffs cost the Council nothing the fees from debtors pay them.
To make someone Bankrupt would cost the council money rarely done.
IF the debtor has no money to pay the bailiffs or council will not get any if they have offered to pay the debt from JSA or AOB unlikely the council can take further action like court again complaints to the council should be sent the CEO AND COUNCILLORS If there is no money to pay even the thickest Bailiff cannot get blood out of a stone.

[Fetherston]

Re: Council aware of vulnerability now sent bailiffs for rates arrears

Why are councils allowed to get away with this?? Our local council got liability orders even though our case iss till with the Tribunal service. Then they sent bailiffs even though both our doctor and social worker had written to them telling them we are a vulnerable household. I emailed all the councillors and told them what their council was doing and just two replied - both sympathetic and both saying they could not control what the council was doing. Now silly me I thought the paid officials were there to do what the elected council told them to do???

[bizzybob]

Re: Council aware of vulnerability now sent bailiffs for rates arrears

Why are councils allowed to get away with this?? Our local council got liability orders even though our case iss till with the Tribunal service. Then they sent bailiffs even though both our doctor and social worker had written to them telling them we are a vulnerable household. I emailed all the councillors and told them what their council was doing and just two replied - both sympathetic and both saying they could not control what the council was doing. Now silly me I thought the paid officials were there to do what the elected council told them to do???

Heigh Ho Heigh Ho, its off to the ombudsman we go, with a complaint or two, telling what 'dey do Heig Ho Heigh Ho heigh Ho heigh ho!