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Hi,
Excellent forum and I've already found some useful information, but a situation happened today that I'd appreciate some advice on before I blow a gasket, so that I can aim my well deserved ire in the right direction.
I'll try to keep this short. Because of significant debt, I allowed my council tax to fall badly into arrears. the last two years were both defaulted and the council obtained liability orders, then passed them to Ross and Roberts.
Following an earlier visit, I arranged to pay £100 a month to them, which I did online each month from April last year to January this year. At the end of January, I received some money from the sale of my late father's house, and cleared my debt via the council's online system (approx 2900) on 5th Feb. The online system shows my balance as zero and I confirmed on the phone that there is no outstanding council tax.
Today I received a visit from a belligerent bailiff, saying that my agreement had broken and that he was there to collect. I explained that the debt was cleared and he said that it wasn't - then made a show of calling someone at the council and getting confirmation to proceed because there were still bailiff fees outstanding.
one of the fees he mentioned was approx £150 'penalty' for breaking the agreement. When I pointed out that this was not a statutory fee, he agreed, but mentioned the visit fees (2 visits on one LO, 1 on the other). I asked for the details of this and he read them out, but refused to give me it in writing. In fact, his words were 'its not going to happen'. I then said that I would pay them if I was provided with the information in writing, upon which he threatened to clamp my van (clearly a business vehicle).
Since I was sitting in the van at the time, I told him that I wanted things in writing, and drove off...
i returned to find a letter through the door, marked as a 'DEFAULT NOTICE', with 'arrears of council tax owed to Dartford Borough Council' in large letters below.
This stated a fee for 'Today's visit' of £150, in addition to the £67 for the 3 previous visits.
The part that incensed me was hand written next to this and says:
'Red Vauxhall and Escort on levy and walking possession signed'
Two small issues with this.
1. I don't own either of these vehicles! My previous van was a Red Vauxhall Combo (but clearly a business vehicle - I'm an electrician), and I drove my father's Escort for a short while after his death before trading it in, but never became the registered owner.
2. I was never made aware of a levy on either vehicle, and most certainly have never signed a walking possession order
I will clearly be raising these issues with the council, the firm, my local councillor, and anyone else who will listen, but in the meantime there are a couple of specific points that would be useful to clarify, as there appears to be conflicting advice on various forums (shock).
1. My understanding is that the liability order is granted to the council, who then assign a bailiff firm as their agents. i.e. that the bailiff is merely the representative of the council. The council has told me to speak to the bailiffs regarding their fees, but am I right in thinking that the council is ultimately responsible for paying the bailiffs from money that I have paid them? In particular, since I was paying the bailiff a monthly fee, is it not usual practise to allocate their fee first before paying anything on to the council? I will of course be seeking a full breakdown of charges.
2. Once the council tax arrears has been paid, does the LO have any validity to allow the bailiffs to act as bailiffs (rather than common debt collectors) in regards to fees, in particular the statutory visit fees that they are claiming? In other words, are they able to legally levy against my current car and seek to remove it to cover only the fees?
3. Am I better dealing directly with the bailiffs through the various template letters, or only with the council, or with both?
4. Can a levy be made against a vehicle without the owner's knowledge - i.e. would I have to sign to confirm, or could they claim they notified me by letter of it (I am sure they did not). If a levy did exist, once I sold/disposed of that vehicle, would the levy cease? Presumably if they claim that the £150 fee today was to attend to remove levied goods they would have to have come prepared to remove a vehicle, not in a large van as was the case.
5. What is the most effective method of causing them the most inconvenience as I feel some payback is called for
I have copies of all the relevant documentation/correspondence if any further info would help.
Regards
Gavin
Excellent forum and I've already found some useful information, but a situation happened today that I'd appreciate some advice on before I blow a gasket, so that I can aim my well deserved ire in the right direction.
I'll try to keep this short. Because of significant debt, I allowed my council tax to fall badly into arrears. the last two years were both defaulted and the council obtained liability orders, then passed them to Ross and Roberts.
Following an earlier visit, I arranged to pay £100 a month to them, which I did online each month from April last year to January this year. At the end of January, I received some money from the sale of my late father's house, and cleared my debt via the council's online system (approx 2900) on 5th Feb. The online system shows my balance as zero and I confirmed on the phone that there is no outstanding council tax.
Today I received a visit from a belligerent bailiff, saying that my agreement had broken and that he was there to collect. I explained that the debt was cleared and he said that it wasn't - then made a show of calling someone at the council and getting confirmation to proceed because there were still bailiff fees outstanding.
one of the fees he mentioned was approx £150 'penalty' for breaking the agreement. When I pointed out that this was not a statutory fee, he agreed, but mentioned the visit fees (2 visits on one LO, 1 on the other). I asked for the details of this and he read them out, but refused to give me it in writing. In fact, his words were 'its not going to happen'. I then said that I would pay them if I was provided with the information in writing, upon which he threatened to clamp my van (clearly a business vehicle).
Since I was sitting in the van at the time, I told him that I wanted things in writing, and drove off...
i returned to find a letter through the door, marked as a 'DEFAULT NOTICE', with 'arrears of council tax owed to Dartford Borough Council' in large letters below.
This stated a fee for 'Today's visit' of £150, in addition to the £67 for the 3 previous visits.
The part that incensed me was hand written next to this and says:
'Red Vauxhall and Escort on levy and walking possession signed'
Two small issues with this.
1. I don't own either of these vehicles! My previous van was a Red Vauxhall Combo (but clearly a business vehicle - I'm an electrician), and I drove my father's Escort for a short while after his death before trading it in, but never became the registered owner.
2. I was never made aware of a levy on either vehicle, and most certainly have never signed a walking possession order
I will clearly be raising these issues with the council, the firm, my local councillor, and anyone else who will listen, but in the meantime there are a couple of specific points that would be useful to clarify, as there appears to be conflicting advice on various forums (shock).
1. My understanding is that the liability order is granted to the council, who then assign a bailiff firm as their agents. i.e. that the bailiff is merely the representative of the council. The council has told me to speak to the bailiffs regarding their fees, but am I right in thinking that the council is ultimately responsible for paying the bailiffs from money that I have paid them? In particular, since I was paying the bailiff a monthly fee, is it not usual practise to allocate their fee first before paying anything on to the council? I will of course be seeking a full breakdown of charges.
2. Once the council tax arrears has been paid, does the LO have any validity to allow the bailiffs to act as bailiffs (rather than common debt collectors) in regards to fees, in particular the statutory visit fees that they are claiming? In other words, are they able to legally levy against my current car and seek to remove it to cover only the fees?
3. Am I better dealing directly with the bailiffs through the various template letters, or only with the council, or with both?
4. Can a levy be made against a vehicle without the owner's knowledge - i.e. would I have to sign to confirm, or could they claim they notified me by letter of it (I am sure they did not). If a levy did exist, once I sold/disposed of that vehicle, would the levy cease? Presumably if they claim that the £150 fee today was to attend to remove levied goods they would have to have come prepared to remove a vehicle, not in a large van as was the case.
5. What is the most effective method of causing them the most inconvenience as I feel some payback is called for
I have copies of all the relevant documentation/correspondence if any further info would help.
Regards
Gavin
- also waiting to hear from Rundles for some older charges, but that is for another time/post.
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