please help!

[samiam]

I don't know what to do.. I returned home on Friday 7th feb to find a letter posted through my door from a bailiff with a removal in 24 hours notice for unpaid council tax, along with a levy inventory.
it says balance due £1,233 + costs... the inventory has three items on it:

1. a car with reg number and description
2. a trailor tent
3. a bbq

The car is not ours but one we have borrowed to attend a funeral out of town on 30th jan and for the burial of the ashes service which was on 7th Feb - interesting thing is on the day he visited we were 2 hours away ALL day from early morning until evening so I do not know how he has the reg and car details when it wasn't even there!
The trailor tent is not ours - we let a friend use our garden to store it for a while as he currently has nowhere to put it
the bbq is mine though :-(

on the inventory it says: outstanding: £1,044.50. Levy and walking possession fee £54.00. Other fees £110/£24.50. TOtal: £1,233.00

I don't know what to do! I don't want my husband to have to tell the people who own the car and the trailor our business.. my husband is a proud man and I know he wont be able to discuss it with them
I am really worried and we are grieving at the moment from a very close family member passing away so all this on top is unbearable. I know it doesn't make a difference to them - not expecting any sympathy. I emailed the council today to ask exactly what I owe them and asked them to put a hold on the bailiff - explained that I could pay the amount direct to them over 3 months, but I couldn't do it in the 5 days the bailiff inventory says I have to pay it in - I also told them the car and the trailor tent was not mine and explained to them and asked again that they stop the bailiff action as they cant take things that don't belong to me.
I am not contacting the bailiff on his mobile as I have read how sneaky and nasty they are - I just don't know what to do from here.. I have no idea how long the council will take to reply and I don't know when the bailiffs will turn up again - will they just take the things listed if they call again?
finding it all really hard to cope with as my head is all over the place at the moment as it is - I know its my fault about the debt in first place - we got in a mess last year but we are back on track now - apart from this debt of course.
Just don't know what to do for the best.
Thanks for reading.

[bizzybob]

Re: please help!

Hi samiam and welcome to LB:beagle:

The levy is challengeable, a Stautory Delaration (sworn at a solicitors, Commissioioner for Oaths. or a magistrates court as to you not owning either item, and maybe the owner of the car producing V5, as to the BBQ, is it a posh gas one, a built in one, or a normal kettle one worth around 50 quid new? That by itself as the only item left may invalidate the rest of the levy, being akin to the bailiff who seized a doormat to ground his fees,? the car and trailer tent being third party items.

Other Beagles will be along soon, what bailiff company are these

[bluebottle]

Re: please help!

Any levy the bailiff may claim to have on the car and trailer tent are, in all probability, invalid. Once the respective owners have each sworn Statutory Declarations as to ownership of the goods and these have been served on the Council and bailiffs, any fees the bailiff may try to claim will be brought into question and any attempt to remove them will amount to Theft. However, the SDs need to be actioned as soon as possible to prevent removal of the goods.

[samiam]

Re: please help!

Hi samiam and welcome to LB:beagle:

The levy is challengeable, a Stautory Delaration (sworn at a solicitors, Commissioioner for Oaths. or a magistrates court as to you not owning either item, and maybe the owner of the car producing V5, as to the BBQ, is it a posh gas one, a built in one, or a normal kettle one worth around 50 quid new? That by itself as the only item left may invalidate the rest of the levy, being akin to the bailiff who seized a doormat to ground his fees,? the car and trailer tent being third party items.

Other Beagles will be along soon, what bailiff company are these

Thank you,
My husband cannot discuss this with the owner of the car - the owner of the car is his boss - how on earth do you tell your boss something like this, let alone ask him to visit solicitors etc? this is whats stressing me out more than anything.
the bbq is a gas one yes.. its seen better days and been out in all weathers so doesn't look great, Id rather they didn't take it but im not going to be too upset if they do - its only a bbq I suppose.
surely with the car they can look up the owner of the car themselves and see its not us?
If I warn the bailiff company that the two items are not mine and they do take them, surely they are at fault and have broken the law by stealing other peoples things?
are they really likely to try and take the things?
I suppose I am just hoping upon all hope that the council safe my ass here and tell them to hold off as I requested.. not holding my breath though!
The company is Jacobs. bailiff name is simon clarke

should I email the bailiff company and say anything?

[samiam]

Re: please help!

Any levy the bailiff may claim to have on the car and trailer tent are, in all probability, invalid. Once the respect owners have each sworn Statutory Declarations as to ownership of the goods and these have been served on the Council and bailiffs, any fees the bailiff may try to claim will be brought into question and any attempt to remove them will amount to Theft. However, the SDs need to be actioned as soon as possible to prevent removal of the goods.

thank you,
I think this is going to turn bad, theres no way my husband will tell his boss all this... hes his boss... not a good friend or anything like that - I thought bailiffs can check vehicle regs to see who owns them?
just don't want my husbands boss involved if we can help it.

[bluebottle]

Re: please help!

thank you,
I think this is going to turn bad, theres no way my husband will tell his boss all this... hes his boss... not a good friend or anything like that - I thought bailiffs can check vehicle regs to see who owns them?
just don't want my husbands boss involved if we can help it.

What you have to realise about certificated bailiffs, especially Jacobs, is that they are disingenuous and some are very dishonest. I am afraid your husband will have to tell his boss what has happened and offer to pay for a Statutory Declaration to be sworn or obtain a photocopy of the V5C from him. If your husband's boss is aware of the bereavement you have had befall you both, then I am sure, if he has any humanity in him, will understand the situation. Being honest with the boss is probably the best policy.

Bailiffs tend to rely on Observer v Gordon [1983] to steal people's cars, even if they belong to a third party. However, it has been overused and I suspect the courts know this. Swearing a Statutory Declaration puts the bailiff on notice a vehicle is owned by a third party, not a debtor. Bailiffs are only lawfully permitted to seize goods belonging to a debtor.

[bizzybob]

Re: please help!

What you have to realise about certificated bailiffs, especially Jacobs, is that they are disingenuous and some are very dishonest. I am afraid your husband will have to tell his boss what has happened and offer to pay for a Statutory Declaration to be sworn or obtain a photocopy of the V5C from him. If your husband's boss is aware of the bereavement you have had befall you both, then I am sure, if he has any humanity in him, will understand the situation. Being honest with the boss is probably the best policy.

Bailiffs tend to rely on Observer v Gordon [1983] to steal people's cars, even if they belong to a third party. However, it has been overused and I suspect the courts know this. Swearing a Statutory Declaration puts the bailiff on notice a vehicle is owned by a third party, not a debtor. Bailiffs are only lawfully permitted to seize goods belonging to a debtor.

have to agree with BB, Jacobs are a particularly bone-headed and nasty bunch, they will take the car and sell it without compunction, as per a long thread on Volkszonew regarding a wrongfully removed and sold VW camper which Jacobs had to get back with maximum embarrasment and cost to them. Won't be long now before relying on Observer v Gordon will land one of Jacobs thugs in jail.

[bluebottle]

Re: please help!

have to agree with BB, Jacobs are a particularly bone-headed and nasty bunch, they will take the car and sell it without compunction, as per a long thread on Volkszonew regarding a wrongfully removed and sold VW camper which Jacobs had to get back with maximum embarrasment and cost to them. Won't be long now before relying on Observer v Gordon will land one of Jacobs thugs in jail.

If police officers are trained to -

a. observe the fact that bailiffs can only seize goods belonging to debtors; and
b. ask to see warrants and Liability Orders to ascertain who the debtor is; and
c. carry out PNC checks on vehicles certificated bailiffs are attempting to seize and comparing details with those on warrants and Liability Orders; and
d. check with courts as to what a certificated bailiff is saying about arrest warrants, forced entry, etc.; and
e. not assist bailiffs to gain entry unless there is written authority available and, certainly, not without first checking with the courts; and
f. not be afraid to arrest a bailiff who lies to them or crosses the line, in the legal sense

it may not be only Jacobs' thugs who land up in prison.

[samiam]

Re: please help!

thank you! I have emailed Jacobs today on the off chance they will listen to me but if they don't I will get my husband to get a copy of the documents for the car to prove its not his. Slightly concerned about the trailor tent as this belongs to a friend and they have no receipt to prove its theirs as they bought it many many years ago informally (its one of those old fashioned trailor tents).. husband has spoke to him and he says he only paid £100 for it all those years ago so as you can imagine its old and not worth a lot atall! but never the less we don't want it taken when its not ours! *sigh*
I have asked for a breakdown of their charges and told them I will duly pay whatever charges are lawful, but I have contacted council and will be paying them what I owe them direct.
I have also told them I was officially informing them that the car and trailor tent was not owned by myself or my husband and that their bailiff has listed things not owned by us and didn't check ownership of the vehicle and trailor and it would be theft and that they would be liable for any costs or expenses of returning these to their rightful owners if they were to ignore my information.
so.. council will hopefully receive my email in morning as I sent that yesterday, and Jacobs will also receive my email tomorrow - just got to wait for the onslaught back from them now - but contacting both is worth a shot don't you think?
I will probably be back here crying tomorrow when I get the two fingers from both of them lol (have to laugh or I will cry!)
I will let you know what they say - thanks for your help! I was going to pay the council direct, a payment of £300 first off but thought I would wait for their answer first or do you think I should just pay that anyway before they answer, then inform them I have done so?

your help has been appreciated! its been driving me crazy all weekend.. Im knackered :-(

[bluebottle]

Re: please help!

The Statutory Declaration in respect of the trailer tent will kill Jacobs' pig in respect of that, along with their fees. Another SD or V5C for your husband's boss's car will also kill Jacobs' pig and fees in respect of that. Having been deprived of the trailer tent and car to seize and sell, plus waving tatty-bye to the fees, Jacobs are likely to be well pissed-off. However, they know very well that they can only seize goods belonging to the debtor so there is very little they can do, legally, if they have chosen to behave in a very foolish manner, which, in their case, isn't very difficult.

As for the CT arrears, I would suggest you pay the £300 asap via the Council's automated payment system and obtain a payment reference and send them an email confirming this, quoting the payment reference, advising when you will make further payments to clear the arrears. The Council cannot lawfully refuse to accept payments towards clearing CT arrears and there is nothing in law that requires you to deal with bailiffs. They need to be reminded of this. Once Jacobs have proven what lawful fees they are due, I would pay them to the Council and tell Jacobs to apply to the Council for their fees. Do not pay them direct to Jacobs as they are not exactly known for being honourable.

[bizzybob]

Re: please help!

If Jacobs were to ignore Stat Dec regarding the ownership of levied items they would be very foolish indeed, and if either car or trailer tent was removed after Stat Decs were served on them, the removal would indeed be theft, if not something more serious, and the bailiff should, but won't go to jail

[wales01man]

Re: please help!

Problem for OP is at the moment they are relying on an email to stop action not going for a SD wont Jacobs see this as a red rag to a bull and get in quick with a clamp or more charges?

[bizzybob]

Re: please help!

Problem for OP is at the moment they are relying on an email to stop action not going for a SD wont Jacobs see this as a red rag to a bull and get in quick with a clamp or more charges?

If they did clamp and or remove the items before Stat Decs served on them, as they have been told by email the goods are third party they would be in the sh1t, as the goods are not debtors, and any charges they try to add are void anyway. If they were to compound their action by actually selling them, then they deserve all the crap that will be thrown at them, just like what happened with that VW camper...

[wales01man]

Re: please help!

We have read of many cases where a vehicle not belonging to the debtor was clamped yet the companies and their bailiffs are still operating seems like the are operating under their own rules aided and abetted by councils .
I have been on here long enough to know that Bailiffs are in some cases abusing their powers abd no one is stopping them

[bizzybob]

Re: please help!

We have read of many cases where a vehicle not belonging to the debtor was clamped yet the companies and their bailiffs are still operating seems like the are operating under their own rules aided and abetted by councils .
I have been on here long enough to know that Bailiffs are in some cases abusing their powers abd no one is stopping them

It will get worse in April if the MOJ persist with their busted-ass interpleaders, anyway here is the link to Jacobs not so finest seizure which had them well and truly buggered as the aggrieved owners future father in law was the retired Chief Constable, which begs the question that if it had been AN Other they would have tried that bit harder with much quoting of Observer v Gordon to get away with it and pay the owner the peanuts they got at auction.:
http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/archive...?t-646595.html