Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

[TVJonesClassic]

Hi, newbie here. Council tax debt has lead to bailiff attending today and calling a tow truck to take my car. Which had the desired result in that I paid something (I know ) and they didn't take my car, but they have added £175 to the bill. Can they do this? Thanks, TVJ.

P.S. I've learned a lot in the last couple of weeks from visiting here and other similar sites and I want to say a big 'Thank You' to everyone involved.

[labman]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

Hi, and welcome to Legal Beagles.

If the tow truck was actually called, rather than the bailiff saying it had been called, then my understanding is they can charge for it. If the car had been levied and they just said they were going to tow your car as a threat to get you to pay, they should not charge.

[TVJonesClassic]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

Thanks. Yes, it was there, big and yellow and scary with the policeman standing next to it. But I guess that's another conversation, why the police attend to enforce civil actions...

[labman]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

The police attend to prevent a breach of the police (peace even! Have left original in due to later posts lol). That should be their only role. I'm afraid if they were actually going to tow the car and had had a valid levy, with valid distress warrant, IMO they can charge.

I don't know if there'd be any mileage in asking to see the invoice from the tow company - I suspect not, but if you want to push your luck......

[bluebottle]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

If it was me, I'd call the bailiff's bluff and ask to see a valid invoice from the recovery operator. If no invoice is produced or the bailiff company refuses to produce an invoice, I'd be very suspicious.

Which bailiff company was involved, please?

[TVJonesClassic]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

Labman, It all happened very quickly. I have a couple of questions which might best suit another thread. By the way, love the typo: "The police attend to prevent a breach of the police." That ironically sums up my experience today. The bailiff tried to physically intimidate and push past me till he realised that wasn't going to work, (calm, controlled and fairly large here) and I'm sure he couldn't have physically been able to force me to hand over the car for towing by himself. But with the police there I wasn't going to risk getting arrested for getting physical around an officer.

[TVJonesClassic]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

Bluebottle, yes, I will be requesting a copy of the invoice. Can I hold off giving the name of the company till further through the process? It's all a bit sensitive at the moment.

[labman]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

Of course you can - it's YOUR thread. I've edited the typo, but had to leave the original there as well lol. It is ironically often true with bailiff issues that the police should be arrested for their own actions or inactions.

[bizzybob]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

Of course you can - it's YOUR thread. I've edited the typo, but had to leave the original there as well lol. It is ironically often true with bailiff issues that the police should be arrested for their own actions or inactions.

Unfortunately police are usually woefully lacking in knowledge of what bailiffs can and should/should not do, and in an eagerness to assist the bailiff who in their mind is an "Officer of The Court" often commit serious criminal offences themselves, such as aiding and abetting fraud, and if discussing what they propose to do, or do it at the behest of the bailiff and the action is unlawful, then Conspiracy is the crime.

[teaboy2]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

TVJones

Important Question:

Did they give you a levy showing they had placed a levy on the car during an earlier visit? If yes then not much we can do, If no then the bailiff is in hot water!!

[CleverClogs]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

From the fee demanded, it seems to be either Mongrels or Rottendales.

[bluebottle]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

Unfortunately police are usually woefully lacking in knowledge of what bailiffs can and should/should not do, and in an eagerness to assist the bailiff who in their mind is an "Officer of The Court" often commit serious criminal offences themselves, such as aiding and abetting fraud, and if discussing what they propose to do, or do it at the behest of the bailiff and the action is unlawful, then Conspiracy is the crime.

Conspiracy isn't as straightforward as it sounds, BB. In order to prove an offence of Conspiracy, you would need to establish -

a. that two or more parties are involved; and
b. that the parties involved agreed to pursue a course of action which, if followed through to completion, would amount to an offence at law; or
c. that such course of action would amount to an offence at law but for the existence of facts which render the commission of the offence or offences impossible.

I have to say that the bar is set high for the offence of Conspiracy. It would, in all probability, be more practical to proceed on offences actually committed provided it could be established that the police officer(s) involved knew or had reasonable cause to suspect that a bailiff was about to commit, or was in the process of committing, or had committed an indictable offence, or their actions were such that, if the police officer did not act and arrest the bailiff, a third party could suffer injury as a result.

As to the new legislation that is due to come into force, in 2014, I have reservations as to whether this will actually happen. As I have said in other threads, the current ConDem government has to remain in office long enough to see the legislation come into force and, to be honest, I am of the view that the ConDem government is not much longer for this world. With court rulings, many handed down by the High Court and Court of Appeal, that its actions and policies are unlawful, accumulating against the ConDem government, the question is when the government is going to be forced into a General Election rather than if they are going to be forced into a General Election.

[labman]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

Am I allowed to post my flying pigs now?

[TVJonesClassic]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

TVJones

Important Question:

Did they give you a levy showing they had placed a levy on the car during an earlier visit? If yes then not much we can do, If no then the bailiff is in hot water!!

No, they had not levyed on the car on a previous visit, at least as far as I'm aware not legally. Slightly complicated situation: My council tax arrears are spread over the end of the tax year and gave rise to two court orders, the first of which came some weeks before the second. The first one resulted in bailiffs coming to my house some two weeks ago. A Form F7 was put through the door in my absence, claiming a levy on my car. From my reading I assume this became an Abandoned levy as the bailiff went away. There were also excessive charges on this form. I put in a complaint to the company asking them to explain their charges. They replied with a lot of waffle, and I replied asking for proper clarification. I was waiting for a reply when the bailiff arrived, 7 days after they received my second letter. I told him there was a complaint in progress and he said it had been dealt with. When I pressed the point he said, OK, we'll just deal with the second order. I told him it was unreasonable to proceed when I had a complaint against his company, he disagreed. (Funny, that.) He wrote out a Form F7 and put it on my car windscreen while I was preventing him clamping the car. I refused to pay anything, he called the police and the tow truck, the police officer told me pay or the car gets towed. He told me this several times. I explained clearly and calmly to the officer my complaint and my concerns about the company acting illegally and fraudulently, in some detail. I complained that the bailiff was trying to clamp on private ground which was illegal, the bailiff said they were exempt, the officer sided with the bailiff but the bailiff decided not to pursue the issue as the tow truck arrived. As I didn't want to lose my car I came up with several hundred pounds from my returned rent deposit, having recently moved, which was supposed to go back to my mother in law. I signed the walking possession order and agreed a repayment plan for the remainder.

A couple of points have stuck with me about this, especially as teaboy2 asks about the previous visit. I wasn't sure if they needed to levy then leave time and return before removing goods. Is this so? Is it bailiff guidelines and/or law? Is the previous visit and levy void because a) it was an Abandoned levy, and/or b) it was a levy for a different debt? Thanks.

Edit to add: So I got the impression they were stung by my complaint and decided to teach me a lesson by responding as quickly and brutally as they could.

[TVJonesClassic]

Re: Can bailiff charge for a tow truck that wasn't used?

Am I allowed to post my flying pigs now?

"Doc, I keep seeing flying pigs."
"Have you seen a psychiatrist?"
"No, just flying pigs."