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Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Form55

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  • Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Form55

    I just need a few words of wisdom and advice as Business Law is not my Forte and which I do not know anything about so would be grateful of any help, advice, assistance or guidance in right direction please.

    A friend of mine has just a few months taken over a small garage repair business where he and his Uncle both work. On the 6th August 2013 a HCEO arrived at his business premises to advise he was there to seize goods and items in respect of a High Court & County Court Judgement that had been issued to a Firm my mate had been using for vehicle parts namely Euro Parts from Tamworth.

    That was the first time my friend had ever been made aware that such a Claim had been filed never mind that it had then gone on to be granted as he has to date never received or been served with any paperwork/documentation/Court Forms etc from neither the Claimant, their Solicitor or the Northampton County Court. The person that went to the business premises was apparently acting on behalf of an HCEO and whose name I was unable to find on the Bailiffs Register so I'm firstly unsure if bearing that in mind this was an Illegal and/or unlawful Act or whether it warrants the Notice of Seizure and Inventory Invalid.

    The latter mentioned Notice then brings me onto my second question regarding the list of items and inventory the so called Bailiff listed on the Seizure Notice as all the items either belong to the Landlord who owns the Business Premises or are required by my mate to carry out his business as without those items not only could he not carry on working he would have to close his business down and he has only started it a few months ago. I have read the Seizure Notice and am somewhat confused to note that on the Notice it lists items that are exempt from being seized or removed yet those very items are then Listed as the items that they are seizing and removing surely that is a contradiction in itself and shows that this Bailiff does not know his ass from his elbow (excuse the pun) nor what they are actually doing.

    My mate being the brain dead idiot that he is signed the Seizure Notice and has until the 14th August to come up with the money owed or the goods listed will apparently be removed the latter of which I cannot see how if they are listed even on the HCEO's own Seizure Notice. Any other items either belong to the Landlord or are Rented from a Company ie card payment machine.

    Because the HCEO walked onto my mates rented business premises the customers who were there were privy to the entire conversation etc and either left immediately or questioned my mate and took their business elsewhere resulting in him losing out on business can he apply for compensation from the parties involved - Claimant, HCEO or Court due to their mistakes.

    I know the Court are at fault in the fact that had my mate been served or received the Court documentation etc in the first instance he could have made it known that he did not agree with most of the amount the Claimant said he owed them and could have made representation at the Court Hearing Date in his defence he was not given any of the rights he is legally entitled to exercise.

    I know that under these circumstances he can apply to the Court for the Judgement to be set aside or varied but based on the timescale I don't think he will be able to carry out this Court Application in fact I do know he needs to fill in both the N244 & N245 Court Forms but as the Bailiff is returning in a few days and fact he can not afford to take time off work or pay for the fuel it would cost him to hand both Forms into Northamptonshire County Court.

    I also know he can write to the HCEO office and advise that the goods being seized are exempt, rented or belong to someone else but again time is against him any suggestions on what he should do. When I eventually found out about all this - on Saturday 10.08.13 - after calling & telling him how stupid he was I got him to telephone the Claimant and when he asked for copies of their Invoices and/or documentation showing the amount that they claim he owed they sent him an Invoice that did not show the money he had paid to date to them they came up with some cock and bull story that only a gullible fool like my mate would believe or fall for.

    All well and good u may think but I have to tell u that to date not only has my mate being working on a cash on basis but he has not set up or hired someone to keep his accounts etc in order and up to date which will not help his Counter Claim although only thing in his favour is fact that he has witnesses, dates and some documentation showing that the total amount being claimed for is not correct and is substantially lower than claimed.

    Based on this information which I'm sure I have left quite a bit out any suggestions as to what he should do apart from the kick up the ass and get himself organised unlucky for him now that I know what has been going on Im about to take control whether he likes it or not as it will benefit me in the long run lol.

    If u need any more information etc please do not hesitate to ask me for it and I will do my best to give it to u (the information that is lol) or get it for u within an hour or so. Many thanks to those who will help me sort this out ur kindness will not be forgotten
    Last edited by IRISHAMA; 12th August 2013, 17:42:PM. Reason: INSERTION OF PARAGRAPHS
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

    I've contacted one of our members who is an expert on High Court enforcement to look in on this thread.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

      I can probably help you with this but firstly ask you help me by editing your post & putting some paragraphs in. I am not good with large blocks of text.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

        For ploddertom:

        Originally posted by IRISHAMA View Post
        I just need a few words of wisdom and advice as Business Law is not my Forte and which I do not know anything about so would be grateful of any help, advice, assistance or guidance in right direction please.

        A friend of mine has just a few months taken over a small garage repair business where he and his Uncle both work. On the 6th August 2013 a HCEO arrived at his business premises to advise he was there to seize goods and items in respect of a High Court & County Court Judgement that had been issued to a Firm my mate had been using for vehicle parts namely Euro Parts from Tamworth.

        That was the first time my friend had ever been made aware that such a Claim had been filed never mind that it had then gone on to be granted as he has to date never received or been served with any paperwork/documentation/Court Forms etc from neither the Claimant, their Solicitor or the Northampton County Court. The person that went to the business premises was apparently acting on behalf of an HCEO and whose name I was unable to find on the Bailiffs Register so I'm firstly unsure if bearing that in mind this was an Illegal and/or unlawful Act or whether it warrants the Notice of Seizure and Inventory Invalid.

        The latter mentioned Notice then brings me onto my second question regarding the list of items and inventory the so called Bailiff listed on the Seizure Notice as all the items either belong to the Landlord who owns the Business Premises or are required by my mate to carry out his business as without those items not only could he not carry on working he would have to close his business down and he has only started it a few months ago. I have read the Seizure Notice and am somewhat confused to note that on the Notice it lists items that are exempt from being seized or removed yet those very items are then Listed as the items that they are seizing and removing surely that is a contradiction in itself and shows that this Bailiff does not know his ass from his elbow (excuse the pun) nor what they are actually doing.

        My mate being the brain dead idiot that he is signed the Seizure Notice and has until the 14th August to come up with the money owed or the goods listed will apparently be removed the latter of which I cannot see how if they are listed even on the HCEO's own Seizure Notice. Any other items either belong to the Landlord or are Rented from a Company ie card payment machine.

        Because the HCEO walked onto my mates rented business premises the customers who were there were privy to the entire conversation etc and either left immediately or questioned my mate and took their business elsewhere resulting in him losing out on business can he apply for compensation from the parties involved - Claimant, HCEO or Court due to their mistakes.

        I know the Court are at fault in the fact that had my mate been served or received the Court documentation etc in the first instance he could have made it known that he did not agree with most of the amount the Claimant said he owed them and could have made representation at the Court Hearing Date in his defence he was not given any of the rights he is legally entitled to exercise.

        I know that under these circumstances he can apply to the Court for the Judgement to be set aside or varied but based on the timescale I don't think he will be able to carry out this Court Application in fact I do know he needs to fill in both the N244 & N245 Court Forms but as the Bailiff is returning in a few days and fact he can not afford to take time off work or pay for the fuel it would cost him to hand both Forms into Northamptonshire County Court.

        I also know he can write to the HCEO office and advise that the goods being seized are exempt, rented or belong to someone else but again time is against him any suggestions on what he should do. When I eventually found out about all this - on Saturday 10.08.13 - after calling & telling him how stupid he was I got him to telephone the Claimant and when he asked for copies of their Invoices and/or documentation showing the amount that they claim he owed they sent him an Invoice that did not show the money he had paid to date to them they came up with some cock and bull story that only a gullible fool like my mate would believe or fall for.

        All well and good u may think but I have to tell u that to date not only has my mate being working on a cash on basis but he has not set up or hired someone to keep his accounts etc in order and up to date which will not help his Counter Claim although only thing in his favour is fact that he has witnesses, dates and some documentation showing that the total amount being claimed for is not correct and is substantially lower than claimed.

        Based on this information which I'm sure I have left quite a bit out any suggestions as to what he should do apart from the kick up the ass and get himself organised unlucky for him now that I know what has been going on Im about to take control whether he likes it or not as it will benefit me in the long run lol.

        If u need any more information etc please do not hesitate to ask me for it and I will do my best to give it to u (the information that is lol) or get it for u within an hour or so. Many thanks to those who will help me sort this out ur kindness will not be forgotten
        At least it contained some punctuation. :rofl:

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

          Originally posted by CleverClogs View Post
          For ploddertom:



          At least it contained some punctuation. :rofl:
          Thank u so much for that for some reason my enter button does not seem to want to work on this site which will probably result in the Irish Temper appearing and either smashing the enter button into submission or breaking my computer again thank u very much really appreciate it

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

            I have the same problem when posting the enter button don't work any ideas?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

              By luck I pressed the F12 scroll lock button and a box appeared so I clicked compatability view and hey presto I can press enter and paragraphs now appear hope this somehow helps as Im not what u would call very au faux with being a computer freak or claim to have a clue what I am doing never mind help anyone else but hope my pushing by chance a button that seems to have sorted my prob is of same help to u. Good Luck Ill keep my fingers crossed

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

                Originally posted by CleverClogs View Post
                For ploddertom:



                At least it contained some punctuation. :rofl:
                Thanks for that CC. I'm afraid in my dotage I have trouble a plenty with big text blocks.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

                  Originally Posted by IRISHAMA
                  I just need a few words of wisdom and advice as Business Law is not my Forte and which I do not know anything about so would be grateful of any help, advice, assistance or guidance in right direction please.

                  A friend of mine has just a few months taken over a small garage repair business where he and his Uncle both work. On the 6th August 2013 a HCEO arrived at his business premises to advise he was there to seize goods and items in respect of a High Court & County Court Judgement that had been issued to a Firm my mate had been using for vehicle parts namely Euro Parts from Tamworth.

                  That was the first time my friend had ever been made aware that such a Claim had been filed never mind that it had then gone on to be granted as he has to date never received or been served with any paperwork/documentation/Court Forms etc from neither the Claimant, their Solicitor or the Northampton County Court. The person that went to the business premises was apparently acting on behalf of an HCEO and whose name I was unable to find on the Bailiffs Register so I'm firstly unsure if bearing that in mind this was an Illegal and/or unlawful Act or whether it warrants the Notice of Seizure and Inventory Invalid. First things first he needs to find out exactly what address incl postcode all the documentation has been sent to. Is he also saying he never received a Letter before Action from the Claimant? Does he actually owe the money they are claiming? Don't worry about not finding the name on any Register as in this case it is irrelevant.

                  The latter mentioned Notice then brings me onto my second question regarding the list of items and inventory the so called Bailiff listed on the Seizure Notice as all the items either belong to the Landlord who owns the Business Premises or are required by my mate to carry out his business as without those items not only could he not carry on working he would have to close his business down and he has only started it a few months ago. I have read the Seizure Notice and am somewhat confused to note that on the Notice it lists items that are exempt from being seized or removed yet those very items are then Listed as the items that they are seizing and removing surely that is a contradiction in itself and shows that this Bailiff does not know his ass from his elbow (excuse the pun) nor what they are actually doing. For business debts Tools of the Trade are not exempt. Can you list the items seized exactly as described on the Notice of Seizure & also mark those goods which are the property of a 3rd Party.

                  My mate being the brain dead idiot that he is signed the Seizure Notice and has until the 14th August to come up with the money owed or the goods listed will apparently be removed the latter of which I cannot see how if they are listed even on the HCEO's own Seizure Notice. Any other items either belong to the Landlord or are Rented from a Company ie card payment machine. By signing he has bought himself some time as otherwise the Enforcement Officer could have removed them immediately.

                  Because the HCEO walked onto my mates rented business premises the customers who were there were privy to the entire conversation etc and either left immediately or questioned my mate and took their business elsewhere resulting in him losing out on business can he apply for compensation from the parties involved - Claimant, HCEO or Court due to their mistakes. Unfortunately not although the Enforcement Officer should have been more discreet.

                  I know the Court are at fault in the fact that had my mate been served or received the Court documentation etc in the first instance he could have made it known that he did not agree with most of the amount the Claimant said he owed them and could have made representation at the Court Hearing Date in his defence he was not given any of the rights he is legally entitled to exercise.

                  I know that under these circumstances he can apply to the Court for the Judgement to be set aside or varied but based on the timescale I don't think he will be able to carry out this Court Application in fact I do know he needs to fill in both the N244 & N245 Court Forms but as the Bailiff is returning in a few days and fact he can not afford to take time off work or pay for the fuel it would cost him to hand both Forms into Northamptonshire County Court. He does have time, however please note that business debts are usually classed as Forthwith Judgments meaning it all has to be paid at once but there are a lot of Judges now who are more realistic particularly for sole traders of small businesses who will allow instalments - it is down to the Judge lottery.

                  I also know he can write to the HCEO office and advise that the goods being seized are exempt, rented or belong to someone else but again time is against him any suggestions on what he should do. When I eventually found out about all this - on Saturday 10.08.13 - after calling & telling him how stupid he was I got him to telephone the Claimant and when he asked for copies of their Invoices and/or documentation showing the amount that they claim he owed they sent him an Invoice that did not show the money he had paid to date to them they came up with some cock and bull story that only a gullible fool like my mate would believe or fall for. For any goods that belong to someone else he must inform the owner and they must make a 3rd party claim as to ownership.

                  All well and good u may think but I have to tell u that to date not only has my mate being working on a cash on basis but he has not set up or hired someone to keep his accounts etc in order and up to date which will not help his Counter Claim although only thing in his favour is fact that he has witnesses, dates and some documentation showing that the total amount being claimed for is not correct and is substantially lower than claimed.

                  Based on this information which I'm sure I have left quite a bit out any suggestions as to what he should do apart from the kick up the ass and get himself organised unlucky for him now that I know what has been going on Im about to take control whether he likes it or not as it will benefit me in the long run lol.

                  If u need any more information etc please do not hesitate to ask me for it and I will do my best to give it to u (the information that is lol) or get it for u within an hour or so. Many thanks to those who will help me sort this out ur kindness will not be forgotten

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

                    To move forward he must make an application for a Stay of Execution against the HCEO which if granted will halt all further enforcement action & charges. He does need some grounds for this but need and answer to few questions asked in the other post first. Is it also possible you can let me know just the general area he lives in - so I know which Court to direct him to & which firm of HCEO's he is dealing with - some are easier than others.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

                      [QUOTE=ploddertom;3653 10] Originally Posted by IRISHAMA
                      First things first he needs to find out exactly what address incl postcode all the documentation has been sent to. Is he also saying he never received a Letter before Action from the Claimant? Does he actually owe the money they are claiming? Don't worry about not finding the name on any Register as in this case it is irrelevant.





                      Answer to the above questions are as follows

                      1. Until the HCEO entered his workplace on the 06.08.13 he had NEVER received, was Never Served Nor was NEVER aware that this matter even
                      existed. His name and workplace business address were handwritten on the Notice of Seizure and Inventory Form but all that that had been
                      typed on the Take Formal Notice Letter was his name and name of garage business he is trading under

                      2. Yes that is exactly what he is saying plus if he had he would have been ringing me or knocking frantically on my door. He has never been sent,
                      served never mind had known about what was going on nor did he receive any Letter before Action from the Claimant.

                      What I find is a bit strange that only few days ago he has received an Invoice from the Company - if you could call it an Invoice as after
                      scanning it myself there have been certain transactions erased, omitted or not shown on the same plus their figures do not add up or comply
                      with the Part or Item listed by. I am not sure if I have taken the incorrect meaning out of the information they have provided on the second of
                      the 2 page Invoice because at the very bottom it says Overdue For Payment £2022.83 with the date this amount is calculated and due to i.e.
                      11.04.13 before then advising and inserting in the boxes directly underneath the above mentioned amount that on the 12.08.2013 the Payment
                      amount due to them by my mater was inserted and shown as being £0.00. Work that one out if you can because I am lost.

                      Notwithstanding the above the Company's Invoice to my mate is a bit concerning as not only has their been payments, refunds, returns etc
                      erased or not entered as being returned which is clearly event when on the first page they have inserted a THANK U ....MATES NAme....which I
                      think they had tried to erase but failed to erase it in its entirety because where it is situated on the Invoice shows them Thanking him for
                      their Part Invoice Amount.

                      3. My mate believes that to date he owes the Company in the region of £200 - £300 but as mentioned above according to the Company as of the
                      12.08.12 he owes nothing to their most recent Invoice he owes nothing so I am not sure what is going on nor is he. As previously advised up
                      until recently he paid for everything by cash and was not great at keeping records for his Accounts or own Records



                      For business debts Tools of the Trade are not exempt. Can you list the items seized exactly as described on the Notice of Seizure & also mark those goods which are the property of a 3rd Party.
                      (1) Blue Lift Ramp Fixed
                      (1) Large Red Tool Box
                      (1) Audi S3 car, its keys and relevant car & reg documents
                      (1) Chip and pin machine
                      (2) Spiral Chairs
                      (2) Wooden Desks
                      (1) Epsom Printer
                      (1) Dell Computer
                      All Assorted tools and parts


                      The 2 Spiral Chairs, Wooden Desk, Printer & Computer belong to the Landlord and were there when my mate took over the garage d

                      Surely the fact that without his tools the business will go under he will no longer have a job or be able to afford to maintain the most basic of everyday living if he has neither tools, work or money. The fact that he has just started up this business needs to be considered and taken into account before the HCEO can seize them so why are they exempt from some private households but not businesses because at end of day without these items he is in exactly same position as would be someone from a private household



                      By signing he has bought himself some time as otherwise the Enforcement Officer could have removed them immediately.

                      He signed it under constant threats, duress, harassment and pressure plus as far as I am aware he was there on his own apart from the several lady customers who were either requiring, going to leave or pick up their cars from his garage most of whom scarpered when they found out who and why he was there. If the Claim was true or the Bailiff had have not made a public nuisance of himself and had taken my mate either into the workplace office or quietly to one side to discuss his private and confidential business affairs that would have been ok but to stand in middle to garage and more or less shout out my mates affairs for all to hear which resulted in at least 3 getting up and leaving in my opinion he is most certainly to blame for business loss on that day

                      Unfortunately not although the Enforcement Officer should have been more discreet.

                      More discreet? Surely you mean he could not have been any more the opposite of discreet

                      He does have time, however please note that business debts are usually classed as Forthwith Judgments meaning it all has to be paid at once but there are a lot of Judges now who are more realistic particularly for sole traders of small businesses who will allow instalments - it is down to the Judge lottery.

                      U think he has time? Firstly he is a bloke, secondly he is an English Bloke (no offence intended to any English just Irish joke thing) Thirdly he would need to find a brain or a gob on him before he could even attempt to deal with this matter.


                      As per usual it will end up being muggins me that has to try and sort this matter out for him. You did realise that the HCEO lackey is coming back tomorrow - Wednesday 14th August 2013 so based on what is needed to be done in around less than half a day in my opinion a snowball has more chance in hell than I have to sort this out before the HCEO comes again. Plus as I don't know ort feel confident in what I am trying to achieve does not give me much faith in myself

                      For any goods that belong to someone else he must inform the owner and they must make a 3rd party claim as to ownership.

                      If the Landlord was a reasonable and approachable kind of person then maybe but he is a complete and utter twat who would kick you out of his premises quicker than help you with a problem. He would throw my mate out regardless of the contractual agreement entered into cos he has money to burn and does not need or care whether the garage is vacant or in use but would get pleasure in seeing another person in complete turmoil, pain, distress and financial difficulty he is not a nice man

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

                        Based on facts that the Court handled this Claim unlawfully by not letting my mate make representation in defence of the Claimant's allegation which by law he is legally entitled to be able to do. Does this not warrant the entire Court process, hearing and judgement as unlawful and enough to have this matter either thrown out of Court or at least having it stayed

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

                          Have you tried to get to the court?HCEOs seem to only respond to instruction from a court

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

                            How do I make such an Application to the Court that in effect granted this judgement to begin with HCEO is called Gordon P Dean he is registered with Bailiff thingy on it they say that he is based in Manchester but on the Take Formal Notice Letter it says Colwyn Bay. His business is based in Sutton Coldfield West Midlands and he lives there also. Northampton County Court Bulk Centre is who issued the Order in the first place

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Court Order awarded first knowledge of same when HCEO arrived at business with Fo

                              That particular Court is miles away would take over hour to get there by that time they would probably b closed can we not just ring and advise of all the facts in this matter

                              Comment

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