Where do I stand with a writ?

[JonT]

Firstly, hello everyone. I'm used to helping others on various professional boards that I frequent, now it's my time to ask!

To cut a story short, I had a business dealing go belly up last year and am owed a reasonable sum of money. Ironically, I have my own licensed debt collectors attending to that and am ever hopeful of a cheque on the mat! However, the lost cash-flow ended me in hot water with some supplier accounts as a sole trader and I've ended up with a couple of CCJ's via the Bulk claims court - one for just under £2k and one of £3k. Both of these also had writs issued, and Marston's have been engaged by both of the creditors (independent to each other). So, I'm now getting grief off Marstons despite a reasonably cordial relationship with the creditors (they've seen it all before and I'm still doing good business with one of them just pro-forma).

Firstly, am I right in thinking that I have the right to tell Marstons that I will only deal direct with the creditors in this instance?
Second, are there limits set on fees as I'm seeing £1.5k claimed as 'officers fees' for the two accounts.
Thirdly, I've been in an arrangement for the £3k debt for a little while and have used this as justification to set up the same deal on the other which has just started. If I pay off the two debts completely direct to the creditors, is there any action that could be taken against me?

Fourthly, in a couple of doorstep letters delivered today (despite the accounts being up to date) it claims they have received a High Court writ, is this true as I thought it was just an extension of the CC process?

Many thanks!

[labman]

Re: Where do I stand with a writ?

Hi,

I'll send a pm to another member who should hopefully be in a position to give you the help you need.

[ploddertom]

Re: Where do I stand with a writ?

Firstly, hello everyone. I'm used to helping others on various professional boards that I frequent, now it's my time to ask!

To cut a story short, I had a business dealing go belly up last year and am owed a reasonable sum of money. Ironically, I have my own licensed debt collectors attending to that and am ever hopeful of a cheque on the mat! However, the lost cash-flow ended me in hot water with some supplier accounts as a sole trader and I've ended up with a couple of CCJ's via the Bulk claims court - one for just under £2k and one of £3k. Both of these also had writs issued, and Marston's have been engaged by both of the creditors (independent to each other). So, I'm now getting grief off Marstons despite a reasonably cordial relationship with the creditors (they've seen it all before and I'm still doing good business with one of them just pro-forma).

Firstly, am I right in thinking that I have the right to tell Marstons that I will only deal direct with the creditors in this instance? You can certainly tell them but they will ignore you.
Second, are there limits set on fees as I'm seeing £1.5k claimed as 'officers fees' for the two accounts. The Fees are open ended dependent on the work they claim for. and can run into many K particularly for a business.
Thirdly, I've been in an arrangement for the £3k debt for a little while and have used this as justification to set up the same deal on the other which has just started. Is the arrangement on a casual basis or as ordered by the Court? If I pay off the two debts completely direct to the creditors, is there any action that could be taken against me? You can certainly try but they may direct your payments to the HCEO as otherwise they become liable for the fees charged.

Fourthly, in a couple of doorstep letters delivered today (despite the accounts being up to date) it claims they have received a High Court writ, is this true as I thought it was just an extension of the CC process? See below

Many thanks!

Did you receive all the relevant notifications about them taking Court action for non-payment? Did you acknowledge service? Did you submit a defence? Were you found "guilty" and Judgment by Default awarded to your Claimant?

The process is as you did not pay your bill the Claimant took you to Court and for whatever reason won. Despite having a CCJ you still did not pay and as the CCJ(s) were over £600 inc costs they have transferred the debt to the High Court for enforcement. Your Claimants have chosen Marstons to work for them as High Court Enforcement Officers. The Writ the HCEO has commands him to attend you and seize all your goods & chattels for removal to be sold to satisfy the debt. You should have been left a Form 55 detailing this.

The way to move forward is to make 2 applications for each CCJ to the Court one of which is more important than the other. Firstly put the CCJ's on an Instalment plan as ordered by the Court, business debts are looked upon as what they call Forthwith Judgments meaning all has to be paid at once but more Judges are now realising that in the present climate it is better to make an arrangement to pay. You may apply for a Variation Order on Form N245 - you may need to check the cost of this as fees have recently been revised. The form is easy enough to fill in.

The most important application is for a Stay of Execution against the Writ. If granted this halts all further enforcement action & charges providing the terms of the Stay are adhered to. This is applied for on Form N244. This is a little more awkward to fill in but I may be able to help with this if required. The grounds on which you may apply can be as simple as the fact you cannot afford the fees charged.

If you are on a low wage or certain Benefits then you can have the fees waived - see Forms EX160a & 160c for details. All forms available from HMCTS website.

Incidentally click the little black triangle at the end of your thread an ask to be moved to the Bailiff Forum.

[JonT]

Re: Where do I stand with a writ?

Did you receive all the relevant notifications about them taking Court action for non-payment? Did you acknowledge service? Did you submit a defence? Were you found "guilty" and Judgment by Default awarded to your Claimant? The first CCJ I entered into correspondence with, but the problem is that as you are directed to correspond with the claimant/representative what happened is that I think there was a processing delay their end on a final letter such that as far as the deadline was concerned it was too late and judgement issued by default. On the second, I was away (I travel on work) when the summons was issued and by the time I'd caught up it was too late. Rather annoying to say the least!

The process is as you did not pay your bill the Claimant took you to Court and for whatever reason won. Despite having a CCJ you still did not pay I wasn't asked to! The application included request for a writ (I think) and as the CCJ(s) were over £600 inc costs they have transferred the debt to the High Court for enforcement. Your Claimants have chosen Marstons to work for them as High Court Enforcement Officers. The Writ the HCEO has commands him to attend you and seize all your goods & chattels for removal to be sold to satisfy the debt. You should have been left a Form 55 detailing this.

The way to move forward is to make 2 applications for each CCJ to the Court one of which is more important than the other. Firstly put the CCJ's on an Instalment plan as ordered by the Court, business debts are looked upon as what they call Forthwith Judgments meaning all has to be paid at once but more Judges are now realising that in the present climate it is better to make an arrangement to pay. You may apply for a Variation Order on Form N245 - you may need to check the cost of this as fees have recently been revised. The form is easy enough to fill in.

The most important application is for a Stay of Execution against the Writ. If granted this halts all further enforcement action & charges providing the terms of the Stay are adhered to. This is applied for on Form N244. This is a little more awkward to fill in but I may be able to help with this if required. The grounds on which you may apply can be as simple as the fact you cannot afford the fees charged.

If you are on a low wage or certain Benefits then you can have the fees waived - see Forms EX160a & 160c for details. All forms available from HMCTS website.

Incidentally click the little black triangle at the end of your thread an ask to be moved to the Bailiff Forum. Will do!

Do the various agencies not have to be able to prove and justify their fees, though? I mean, otherwise there'd be nothing stopping them trying to charge £5k for a phone call.

[ploddertom]

Re: Where do I stand with a writ?

Do the various agencies not have to be able to prove and justify their fees, though? I mean, otherwise there'd be nothing stopping them trying to charge £5k for a phone call.

http://www.hceoa.org.uk/regulatory-i...ions-2004.html

Scroll down to find the fees they are allowed to charge, the expensive ones are all claimed under Miscellaneous. All the fees are challengeable.

[labman]

Re: Where do I stand with a writ?

You can find all the forms you need on the link below to save you hunting:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...1-Useful-Links

[JonT]

Re: Where do I stand with a writ?

http://www.hceoa.org.uk/regulatory-i...ions-2004.html

Scroll down to find the fees they are allowed to charge, the expensive ones are all claimed under Miscellaneous. All the fees are challengeable.

Well, I can't actually create a figure larger than £150 on a £2k judgement, and the idea of something not being already covered in the stated allowances is rather far-fetched. This really IS preying on the vulnerable, isn't it?!

I notice that there is provision within the rules to pass the fees through to the party requesting the Stay.

[ploddertom]

Re: Where do I stand with a writ?

One thng of note that I have not mentioned is that a HCEO is permitted to force entry to commercial premises providing they are not attached to your residential property. If he calls at home he has no automatic right of entry regardless of what he may say but if you have any detached buldings on site - garage, workshop, shed etc - then he is permitted to force entry to these. Providing you deny him access or otherwise prevent goods outside being seized - most notably a car or van - then there is little he can do & after 3 or 4 visits may return the Writ to the Claimant.

The Writ remains valid for 12 months but may be renewed upon request & if it is returned unexecuted there is nothing to prevent them engaging a different HCEO. In the meantime to find out what you have been charged then a request for a breakdown of charges should be made, you will be surprised how inventive they will have been regarding Miscellaneous Fees.

[JonT]

Re: Where do I stand with a writ?

One thng of note that I have not mentioned is that a HCEO is permitted to force entry to commercial premises providing they are not attached to your residential property. If he calls at home he has no automatic right of entry regardless of what he may say but if you have any detached buldings on site - garage, workshop, shed etc - then he is permitted to force entry to these. Providing you deny him access or otherwise prevent goods outside being seized - most notably a car or van - then there is little he can do & after 3 or 4 visits may return the Writ to the Claimant.

The Writ remains valid for 12 months but may be renewed upon request & if it is returned unexecuted there is nothing to prevent them engaging a different HCEO. In the meantime to find out what you have been charged then a request for a breakdown of charges should be made, you will be surprised how inventive they will have been regarding Miscellaneous Fees.

I was thinking exactly that! In the breakdowns, we have the original judgement, then judgement costs, then execution costs. There is then interest at the 8% rate (I understand that as I do it myself to late payers) - but under the late payments act, is the interest accrued just on the original debt/judgement or is it applicable to the whole lot?

Sorry - I'm asking a whole bunch of technical questions here and not saying how much I appreciate the time and answers from the skilled, who I'm sure could probably be charging by the hour!

[JonT]

Re: Where do I stand with a writ?

This is the letter I've just sent by email and recorded delivery:


xxxxx
Marston Group Ltd
Embassy House
60 Church Street
Birmingham
B3 2DJ


11 July 2013


Dear Sirs,


RE xxxx
xxxx

Following exchange of correspondence relating to xxxx, 1 July 2013, and subsequent first payment of xxxx being paid as discussed on 9 July 2013 by direct bank transfer (along with similar on-going payment on account to xxxx), I was more than a little disappointed to note a visit from your officers on 10 July 2013.


As it would seem the visit was made late in the afternoon, I can see no good reason why your officers would have been unable to avail themselves of the latest entries on the files before departure from your offices or your accounts department to have reconciled ledger payments and in doing so would have had no justification in the visit. I can only therefore assume that this was an exercise in profiteering on your part.


With this in mind, and to allay any possible confusion on either of our parts, please provide me with a written breakdown of your claimed costs as they relate to Schedule 3 of the HCEO Regulations 2004.


Please be very clear that any claimed costs for You are held in dispute until such time as they may be independently verified in accordance with Rule 13 (4) of the Regulations. As such, I have full expectation that ALL monies paid to you at this time will be passed to settle the original judgement amount (allowing for official Judgement and Execution costs of £288.75 and statutory interest at 8% as afforded by the Late Payments of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998). As such, I will be making contact directly with the creditors to ensure this happens. If it subsequently is decided that an adjustment on fees is appropriate then monies which should have been distributed to creditors will be subject to recalculation of the interest amount which may incur costs to You.


Yours faithfully,

[JonT]

Re: Where do I stand with a writ?

Well, I went to file both the 244 and 245 at local county court today, and the girls in the office said that as I'd made reference to already making payment terms on the 245 to Stay the Writ that I only had to file that one (£80) and it'll be put in front of a DJ first thing in the morning for urgent attention. I also on the same application asked for Marston's fees to be examined under the HCEO Regs and the County Courts Act.

Let's see what happens....DJ might still say no, of course.