My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

[ploddertom]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

They will no doubt forward you "Letter, Waffle for confusing residents about Bailiffs No 5 for the use of".

[bizzybob]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

Hi all,
Update as promised!
I met with the council today regarding the bailiff clamping my mums car and various charges.
I have shown them the documents and they say they are going to check and get back to me.
Not an awful lot to add but hopefully things should move forward when they accept the car was on HP.

They better had get a grip, as they are liable for any of Jacobs stupidity jointly and severally.

[nickc]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

During my meeting, a charming man from the Solutions Team, explained the reason the bailiff charged an attendance fee, is they always bring a van as a kind of insurance policy, just in case they have to seize goods.
He said it was a bit like always taking an umbrella out with you, just in case it rains.
When I explained they had not levied on anything, so why did they need the van, (resulting in a further £80 charge) he said I needed to see the logic in it and see things from the bailiffs point of view.
Considering this genius is the person my complaint has been "escalated" to - from the council parking "Team Leader" who said the bailiff was perfectly entitled to advise me to get a log -book for a car on HP and then rejected my entire complaint, I am not filled with much hope.
If it wasn't for all of the advice on this site, I would have walked away at this stage and dropped the whole thing.
But, without being to over-dramatic, I think if you demand justice, you have to fight for it.
So I will see what Jacobs/Council have to say when they have confirmed HP document is authentic and see how they try and wriggle out of it.

[nickc]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

Also this is the response to my complaint about my mums car being clamped (even though it is on HP) and £1300 bill for 7 parking tickets.
After I received this letter, I escalated my complaint and had a meeting at the council on Wed (as disucssed above) The Council are now checking the docs I gave them proving the car in on HP.
I received this ten days ago but thought I would post it here as it shows how they blatantly believe the bailiff.

My colleague has forwarded your email to me as Team Leader for Parking as it refers to Jacobs Bailiffs. Jacobs Bailiffs are contracted by the Council to execute warrants issued by Northampton County Court for the collection of outstanding Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs).

Our records show that there have been a total of 15 PCNs issued to this particular vehicle, 8 of which have been paid and there are a total of 7 PCNs unpaid, which are currently with the bailiff.

I have spoken to the bailiff who I understand have also been in contact with you in respect of a complaint concerning their employee Mr ??????. The bailiff has advised that if their response concerning their employee is not to your satisfaction you are able to request the matter be referred to their professional association CIVEA (The Civil Enforcement Association).

The bailiff has confirmed that at the time of the bailiffs visit Mr ??????? carried out their normal procedure in confirming who the vehicle was registered to and if the vehicle in question was on a finance agreement. An HPI check was carried out on 16 April 2013 to confirm this information. As it was confirmed from the HPI check there was no finance on the vehicle and that you are the registered keeper Mr ????? followed the correct procedure. He also to assist you provided further information on how funds perhaps could be obtained. The bailiff has also advised that if you can provide documents that prove that there is finance outstanding on this vehicle they will review your account.

As the bailiff is executing a warrant issued by the County Court they must continue to recover the outstanding PCNs and any fees they have incurred. The fees the bailiff applies are as per the Statutory Legislation being Schedule 1 of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Fees (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993 (as amended).

After considering all of the information provided by Jacobs I am reassured that the bailiff has followed their normal procedures in executing the warrant and recovering the outstanding PCNs. If you have any documents that you can provide to the bailiff in respect of any finance agreement for the vehicle they would be happy to review your account and in addition they have also provided details on how to escalate any complaint in respect of their employee.

Your complaint has been dealt with at Stage 1 of the Council’s Corporate Complaints Policy. If you remain dissatisfied with this response you have 21 working days to write to the Solutions Team, at ??????? requesting that your complaint be escalated to Stage 2. Please quote the reference number as indicated on this letter and clearly state why you are unhappy with the outcome of Stage 1 and what your expected outcomes are. Your complaint will then be escalated and investigated by a senior manager and you will receive a response within 20 working days of the Solutions Team receiving your letter.

[nickc]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

Hi all,
Quick update regarding my mum's car being clamped by Jacobs.
The council now accept this vehicle was subject to an HP agreement after I provided them with proof.
However, when I asked them if they would now ask for proof that Jacobs actually carried out an HP check on the vehicle, they replied:" Thank you for your email. I accept your point but I do not have the authority to compel bailiffs to respond to my questions.
I will ask as a point of reference."
Does anyone know if this is correct?
thanks in advance

[CleverClogs]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

It is certainly true that councils are wholly responsible for the actions of the bailiffs or bailiff companies they have seen fit to appoint. So, if their claim is that they do not "have the authority" to demand answers from the bailiffs, one must surely wonder why that should be as the bailiffs could have landed the council in trouble or left the council liable for damages.

That you were able to prove that the motor-car was the subject of a hire purchase agreement does rather suggest that:

1. the HPI check was carried out by an incompetent clod, or
2. no HPI check had been made at all

Either way, the council should change its bailiffs.

[bluebottle]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

It is certainly true that councils are wholly responsible for the actions of the bailiffs or bailiff companies they have seen fit to appoint. So, if their claim is that they do not "have the authority" to demand answers from the bailiffs, one must surely wonder why that should be as the bailiffs could have landed the council in trouble or left the council liable for damages.

That you were able to prove that the motor-car was the subject of a hire purchase agreement does rather suggest that:

1. the HPI check was carried out by an incompetent clod, or
2. no HPI check had been made at all

Either way, the council should change its bailiffs.

Exactly my thoughts, Cloggy. What the council has said to the OP is 24-carat BS. As the contractee, they can and should require Jacobs to produce evidence that an HPI check was, in fact, carried out. There is nothing to stop the OP requiring Jacobs to produce proof that the HPI check was carried out. If Jacobs resist or refuse to co-operate, I would regard that as a negative as regards the HPI check.

[bluebottle]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

The poster who uses the handle that describes a High court enforcer is maintaining that that is perfectly OK to take and sell a car on HP if the Finance company agrees... I can't see a High Court Master or District Judge agreeing with that. To the best of my knowledge and belief, where an HCEO or Certificated Bailiff has acted in a manner that means his/her actions amount to a criminal act, a court cannot condone or be seen to be condoning such an act.

However down in Jacobs land, they need to get a grip and remove these unlawful fees. Someone needs to get a grip on them, let alone them get a grip and remove the unlawful fees.

@@@@

[nickc]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

Thanks everyone.
I just need to work out a plan of action as I doubt the council will be much use.

[CleverClogs]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

I just need to work out a plan of action as I doubt the council will be much use.

You should give them a chance to fix it before you unleash the LGO on them.

[nickc]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

It will be interesting to see what the council come up with!

You should give them a chance to fix it before you unleash the LGO on them.

[nickc]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

Quick update: The council have completed their stage two review into my complaint about Jacobs clamping my mums car.
They have accepted my proof the car is and has always been on HP via my mum (i've never had any ownership) they say Jacobs have been informed and updated their files.
But the conclusion of the review is that all the charges are correct and lawful, they have nothing whatsoever to do with the bailiffs and if I've still got a problem I can go to the LGO
What is weird is even though they agreed in writing to ask Jacobs for proof they did carry out an HP check (which is what the entire complaint hangs on) they have now refused to even ask them for proof (despite insisting I provided proof) saying they have no relationship with the bailiff and it is the courts who have appointed them.
Bizarrely, the Solutions Officer running the review, who had a meeting with me, got us to give him permission to contact the Renault, contacted Renault to ask for proof the car was on HP, etc etc, has now said in writing he was "acting as an independent third party" and not as an employee of the council.
I have complained to the chief executive saying I only gave this chap permissions, info and data, because he was a council employee.
No reply from the chief exec.
Has anyone heard of a this independent third party thing before, I am a bit lost to honest.
thanks

[ploddertom]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

Doesn't matter how much the Council squirms they cannot get out of the fact they are responsible for the actions & charges their contractors make. As long as they have done nothing blatantly illegal - committing an assualt as an extreme example - then the Council are leaving themselves wide open. I would let the Council hang themselves & then take this to the LGO.

[ploddertom]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

Working as an independent party - absolute drivel.

[bizzybob]

Re: My mums HP car was clamped by Jacobs baliffs

Escalate to the LGO, all the fees are not correct and MUST be removed, they are digging themselves a very large hole. Send copies of the response to your MP, and also Eric Pickles.