Council Tax Liability Order - urgent help needed

[springwater]

Hi all,

I need some urgent advice.

My parents are both in their 60's and are massively stressed by this, they have a pretty urgent council tax situation on their hands.

In October they had a visit from a bailiff regarding outstanding council tax, 1 was for historical debt (around £2k) the other was for the current year council tax (up until march 2013).

Total debt was around £4k.

A bailiff from rossendales visited and said the usual (he will be back, can access the property blah blah blah, he didnt get access to the home and no vehicles were on the drive at the time so he did not do any notice of seizures etc). My parents contacted the council who agreed to meet them, they managed to do a deal which entailed £50 per month being paid off the historical debt, and current council tax payment plus £90 to catch up with this years council tax, meaning that end of march they are up to date with 2013 and from march onwards they just keep paying £50 off the old debt.

now, they paid in october, november, December. but fell behind in janaury (january payment was made early feb, feb payment early march) meaning they are paying each months payment 2 weeks late.

They had a visit again from rossendales yesterday, demanding the total amounts are cleared immediately (these now stand at £1600 historical debt and £864 for current year). They explained to the bailiff they have been paying, they also contacted the council (who say they have not re-instructed rossendales!!!), and on the back of this the bailiff has agreed to 'put the case on hold' until they sort it out with the council. they have an appointment with the council at 10am tomorrow to discuss .

a few questions:

1. should they/can they go to court and do an n244, is this even necessary?
2.do rossendales have an obligation to offer a payment plan based on what they can afford? surely full balance immediately isnt reasonable given the fact they've been paying since october?
3. do the council have an obligation to stop this action given the payment history?
4. do we need to take preventative steps incase we cant resolve this, i.e my dad has a car on the drive, plus he has a pizza oven trailer belonging to my sister on the drive, should he sign the car across to my sister (to stop them taking it, n.b they have not seized it or given any forms of seizure etc) and how do i prove the pizza trailer is my sisters (do i need a stat dec?). again, is this action necessary?

any help hugely appreciated, they're massively stressed about this and i'd like to know all of their options prior to council meeting tomorrow.

[Inca]

Re: Council Tax Liability Order - urgent help needed

Hi and to LegalBeagles.......someone will be by shortly to help you

[labman]

Re: Council Tax Liability Order - urgent help needed

Hi Springwater,

Sorry to hear of your parents' predicament and they're clearly doing well in their efforts to repay the debt.

The single most important thing here is to stop the bailiffs getting a valid levy on anything. I assume your sister could prove the Pizza trailer belongs to her? She must have a purchase receipt or something. Switching the car is a good option if they can't park a few streets away, or they don't know a close neighbour with a garage in which they can park it. If they do, it's important to remember they'd have to make sure they had valid insurance on the vehicle though if they intend driving it, otherwise it could be a frying pan into the fire situation.

Next, as long as no valid levy is in place, and they can stop one being gained, there is nothing that states they even have to deal with the bailiffs if they don't want to. They can do everything through the council. The council will say they can't and have to deal with the bailiffs - they are lying. They can pay either on line or via the council's automated systems, paying a fixed sum, every week, regular as clockwork. This way we build up a quick repayment history, and can soonish look at getting the debt taken back by the council.

Thirdly, do your parents know how many LO's have been awarded against them? Do they know any fees Rossendales are claiming? Remind me to come back to those when I've asked you the following question.

You mention 'prior to council meeting tomorrow' - please can you expand on this?

I'm not avoiding answering your questions - I'm VERY happy to, but depending on your answer to the question above makes a difference as to whether I need to. If the meeting is between your parents and the council, with someone in the council who can actually do something, then it's best to decide on a course of action for that meeting. The best course of action would need more detail. Is the council tax section outsourced to Capita?

[springwater]

Re: Council Tax Liability Order - urgent help needed

hi,

thanks for your response!

the meeting with the council tomorrow is to discuss the situation, I am taking it as a positive that the council have agreed a meeting to discuss. As far as we can gather the meeting is with a senior person within the dept.
The council is northumberland county council and as far as I know, is not outsourced to capita, they are dealing with the local authority direct.

[labman]

Re: Council Tax Liability Order - urgent help needed

Thanks Springwater, that's very useful to know.

I would encourage your parents to phone the council today and find out:

1. How many Liability Orders they have against you?
2. The dates they were obtained?
3. The addresses they were for?
4. The period of time each covers?
5. How much each one was for?
6. How much is still outstanding?
7. The dates they were passed on for enforcement?

If you live nearby and can pop over and make the phone call with them giving permission it may be helpful, I don't know - you know your parents.

Ideally what you are wanting from the council tomorrow is this being taken back by the council with an agreed repayment plan so there is no further enforcement action by Rossendales. Your parents can then get on with their lives without fear of bailiffs, but knowing they must stick to the arrangement, otherwise they will end up back with the bailiffs.

It is unusual for the council to agree to a meeting like this, so I suspect there may be a history to the case. It would not be a bad thing for your parents to go into that meeting with a detailed breakdown of their Income and Expenditure. The best one is a signed off Common Financial Statement, as this has the backing of legislation, and is accepted by courts. I can help you with that side of things if your parents are willing to spend some time to achieve this - do they have internet access, a scanner and a printer?

If this meeting is to take place, I actually would not worry too much about your questions until after we know the outcome of that meeting. The relevant bits are yes, Rossendales should accept a repayment plan - BUT they did, and your parents didn't stick to what was agreed. It is normal if payments are missed by just one day for the bailiffs to cancel any such arrangement and go for the full amount. It isn't right, but it is normal practice.

Do the council have an obligation to stop action? No - your parents owe money, the council are entitled to pursue them for it via the enforcement methods they see fit.

The rest can really wait until tomorrow, as long as Rossendales aren't going to appear today.

I've cleared it with Site Admin for you and I (or your parents) to speak directly off site as time is not on our side. If you'd like to take me up on this offer, pm me with a phone number and I'll phone you.

[ploddertom]

Re: Council Tax Liability Order - urgent help needed

What age are your parents? Do they claim any Benefits? Are they in good health? Who from the Council are they meeting and where?

[springwater]

Re: Council Tax Liability Order - urgent help needed

hi all, thankyou so much for your help, they have been to meet council today and have been told it is an admin error, despite them being 2 weeks late the council are fine with situation!

they have informed bailiffs also!

what a relief!

[ploddertom]

Re: Council Tax Liability Order - urgent help needed

Good to hear that, makes a change for a Council to admit a mistake. Why couldn't they tell them earlier to save all the grief though.

[labman]

Re: Council Tax Liability Order - urgent help needed

Good to hear that, makes a change for a Council to admit a mistake. Why couldn't they tell them earlier to save all the grief though.

Maybe it's easier for them to do this, than face being boll ocked in court for the behaviour of their enforcement agents in cancelling a long standing repayment plan due to a late payment.

Frustrating, but glad for your parents they got it sorted out.

[springwater]

Re: Council Tax Liability Order - urgent help needed

thanks again, i really appreciate it!