PCN Problem

[voomer]

Last year I was handed a PCN notice for 'Not wearing a seatbelt' I subsequently got my mother to post a cheque for this about 2 or 3 weeks later. My mother posted the cheque due to me being made bankrupt 5 months earlier due to the failure of my business.

I forgot all about it and we then moved house, on Thursday I arrived home to find Marstons advising they had a distress warrant for a sum totalling £390.00 comprising £90 fine and £300 bailiffs fees. All correspondence and the distress warrant was sent to our previous address as I had not notified the court of my change of address, as I believed the matter closed. I subsequently checked and the cheque has never been cashed and the court say they have not received it.

On Friday I tried to get the distress warrant set aside but the court clerk advised the court I had no grounds as I been handed to PCN notice so knew of the fine.

I requested time to pay and the Marston Bailiff has given me until Friday 08/03/13 to get the total amount together, as I have never received a further steps notice either from the court or Marstons have I any legal method to get the matter taken back to court. I am able to pay the fine in full and pay the remainder if necessary over the folling six weeks.

Can anyone please advice?

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: PCN Problem

Hello and a warm welcome to LB!

If you have not already done so, you need to ask for a breakdown of fees from Marstons, as £300 seems a tad.. excessive.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...The-First-Time

have a read of our stickies too, they are a great help, have you got proof that your mum paid the bill?

I am highlighting this to our experts too

[voomer]

Re: PCN Problem

I have edited my original post to clarify the cheque has not been cashed or recd by central ticket office in Manchester.

[CleverClogs]

Re: PCN Problem

If you have not already done so, you need to ask for a breakdown of fees from Marstons, as £300 seems a tad.. excessive.

It does, doesn't it?

However, it is comprised of their standard admin fee of £85, which covers the hire of someone who can read, and the ba:censored:rd bailiff attendance fee of £215 which probably includes the cost of the oaf's nappies.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...s-Courts-Fines

[voomer]

Re: PCN Problem

At risk of being naive what is purpose of asking for the breakdown of costs, should it be in writing or by phone?

[bizzybob]

Re: PCN Problem

At risk of being naive what is purpose of asking for the breakdown of costs, should it be in writing or by phone?

Preferably in writing, then if they have added anything dodgy, they have hung themselves, and the breakdown is to establish and put them on strict proof as to the validity of what they want you to pay them for the dubious pleasure of collecting an overdue fine from you.

[voomer]

Re: PCN Problem

Looking at information on this board and other sources on the internet, my best hope is to contact the court and request a Means hearing on the basis I was never issued with a further steps notice and if necessary escalate that request through to court hierarchy until granted.

Alternatively apply to set the distress warrant using the N245 form on the same basis non receipt of the further steps notice, with the intention of being given further time to pay.

[bluebottle]

Re: PCN Problem

HMCTS came out on the wrong side of a Judicial Review relating to fines recently. Their computer system was slated as "not fit for purpose" and so was their means form. The High Court also confirmed that fines cannot be imposed or enforced unless the defendant's means have been examined.

The simple fact is that if you have not received a Further Steps Notice (FSN), HMCTS cannot involve bailiffs until they do. The FSN is a legal requirement.

I would do as you say and that is ask for a Means Hearing and keep asking until HMCTS grant one. If not, start with the HMCTS Area Enforcement Manager (AEM), then escalate to the HMCTS Regional Contracts Manager (RCM) and, finally, to the HMCTS Head of Enforcement Operations (HEO), in London. If you have to escalate matters to HEO level - I sincerely hope it doesn't reach that level and is resolved at a lower level - make sure you advise which part of England/Wales you live in as this will determine which HEO deals with it.

Hope this helps.

[voomer]

Re: PCN Problem

My only concern is HMCTS will clain the FSN was sent to my old address, we did have a re direct from our old house to the new one. However the previous residents of our new house have their mail on hold whilst they are in USA for six months and we know some of our mail has gone missing.

I live in Bury Lancs but the fine is with Manchester city magistrates court is the AEM likely to based at Manchester or will his office off site?

[bluebottle]

Re: PCN Problem

My only concern is HMCTS will clain the FSN was sent to my old address, we did have a re direct from our old house to the new one. However the previous residents of our new house have their mail on hold whilst they are in USA for six months and we know some of our mail has gone missing.

I live in Bury Lancs but the fine is with Manchester city magistrates court is the AEM likely to based at Manchester or will his office off site?

The AEM for your area is Mr Scott Renem who is based at Manchester Magistrates Court. When ringing the court, ask for the Enforcement Office and ask to speak to Mr Renem or ask for him to contact you.

[labman]

Re: PCN Problem

Last year I was handed a PCN notice for 'Not wearing a seatbelt'

Sorry, I've only just seen this. Please could you clarify the statement above. You would not receive a Penalty Charge Notice for not wearing a seat belt, you'd receive a Fixed Penalty Notice.

The two are entirely different things, so please could you clarify whether you did in fact receive a PCN or a FPN?

Thanks.

[voomer]

Re: PCN Problem

My apologies you are correct it was a fixed penalty notice not a PCN,

[bizzybob]

Re: PCN Problem

Even though the FSN had gone to a previous address, you should have been able to swear a Statutory declaration due to non receipt, as in all the excitement of the move, you had plain forgotten.

Do as bluebottle suggests, contact the HMCS area gaffer.

[voomer]

Re: PCN Problem

Just to update the events of today, I spoke with the fines office at Manchester Mags court to request the means hearing, and was refused by the person who picked up the phone, her supervisor and the Area Enforcement manager (AEM). However after a lengthy conversation with the AEM he did offer to liase on my behalf with Marstons.

True to his word he rang me back this afternoon and Marstons were prepared to accept payment in installments, payment of the fine £90.00 within 24 hours, and the balance in two installments of £150.00 at the end of March and April.

I have accepted this offer but will continue to look at ways of challenging the validity of the distress warrant, interestingly when pushed the AEM advised that I was not able to use the N245 form as it only applies to warrants issued on behalf of the county court NOT magistrates warrants. Also the FSN notice was posted to my old address and simply putting it the letterbox counts as me being served.

If anyone has any thoughts on the best way to proceed please offer your advice, not the best result today but a step in the right direction.

[bluebottle]

Re: PCN Problem

What the hell is an AEM doing bowing and scraping to Marstons? AEMs are supposed to keep Marstons in line. This needs escalating to the next level which is the Regional Contracts Manager.

What the AEM said about N245 is correct. However, if the FSN was allegedly sent to your old address this needs to be proven. It is all too easy for them to claim they sent it and that constitutes service as it is very easy to put on a written or computer record that an FSN has been sent, but the FSN has not been physically sent. They are going to have to do better than that, hence why you should escalate this matter to the next level.