Marston baillifs - please help

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Why?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...ficers-1166039
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16383538

Something called the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1971. However, in Somecamel's case. the police officers aided and abetted the bailiff to commit an indictable offence, that of Attempted Burglary, as they entered Somecamel's home as a trespasser with the intention of taking goods, as it subsequently transpired, they would have had no lawful authority to take. That would then have been Burglary per se. As is common knowledge on LB, police officers have had little, if, any training in bailiff matters and are repeatedly mislead and hoodwinked by certificated bailiffs and HCEOs into aiding and abetting in the commission of what are, in essence and reality, criminal offences. My fear is that when police officers find out what has been happening, they are going to turn on the civil enforcement industry and that is when we will see bailiffs getting what has been coming to them for a long time.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Sent my complaint into marstons today, awaiting a response from the police, sent my complaint via the commissioner who passed it to the chief constable, have been told it's currently with the 'police standards department' or the like. Also waiting back from the data protection department as I've requested a copy of the officers notes to the incident.

My next question, TV licensing are at the top of the chain of this sorry affair, I've since moved house (Misses worried about further visits) so assume that I should contact them and inform them of my move so they don't issue a summons to the old address and I get another visit in 12 months time from Marstons, however, surely they also hold some responsibility for this as they were the petitioner for the magistrates court complaint which led to all this.

As a side note, made a decision on moving home to do away completely with the receiving of a television signal by any means when it's broadcast live so no more TV License. Was a great conversation with Sky as well when I cancelled that.

If this was due to incompetence on the part of TV Licensing, I would go after Capita and seek damages against their goons and the company. The fact they have quashed the fine is only mitigation. From what you have said, it is their incompetence that lead to this. Capita have to accept full responsibility for what happened and pay appropriate compensation and damages.

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

In practice, the bailiff has to show it is necessary and obtain authorisation from the court to do so. Obtaining authority from a bailiff company or the bailiff taking it upon themselves to force entry is out. The court is there - or supposed to be there - as a safeguard against abuse.

I am afraid this is totally untrue as long as the bailiff in question has undergone the appropriate training (which he will have)and are authorized by the warrant they can force entry on their own volition, there is no requirement for any additional permission.(sadly)

[labman]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

I'd agree with you here GT. I think it would be unwise, and they put themselves at risk by doing so. However, if they take that risk, then I believe you're correct annoyingly!

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

That's not what I am lead to understand. Also, unless the warrant issued by the court clearly states that entry may be forced, the court warrant is to be followed to the letter. Any DIY/Letterhead warrant is about as effective as a fart in a biscuit tin. As the warrant Somecamel obtained shows, it is nothing like a court warrant. I've executed court warrants and they look nothing at all like the amateurish effort by Marstons.

[labman]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

But I understood the bailiff only had to tell the debtor where they could inspect it - they didn't have to have it on them.

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

From the MOJ guidance schedule 4

Stage 4: Procedure to be taken when contact is made with the Defaulter
1.7 When contact is made the Authorised Employee shall:-
•
Show the Defaulter his/her identity card and statement of authorisation issued by the Department.
•
If the warrant is in his/her possession, show it to the Defaulter or if it is not state where the warrant is and what arrangements may be made to allow the Defaulter to inspect it.
•
Provide the following information in writing:-
i.
The purpose of the visit;
ii.
The powers vested in the Contractor;
iii.
How the outstanding sum may be paid, including details in respect of part payment;
iv.
Where advice about the effect of the warrant and related matters may be obtained;
v.
The complaints procedure operated by the Contractor
1.8 If contact is made with the Defaulter and:-
��
Payment can not be obtained and/or
��
There are insufficient/no goods upon which to levy or
��
The Defaulter is identified as being in a category specified at paragraph 6.41 or
��
The goods are identified as being in a category specified at paragraph 6.42

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

So it seems from the above that the bailiff can just leave the information above in any form, it does not have to be contained within the warrant. However the actual document must be made available for inspection if the debtor asks.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

But I understood the bailiff only had to tell the debtor where they could inspect it - they didn't have to have it on them.

You've hit the nail right on the head, Labman. The problem is incorporating into legislation a provision that allows a certificated bailiff to not be required to have a copy of the court warrant in their possession when calling at a debtor's/defaulter's home. That is like putting Count Dracula in charge of a blood bank and telling him not to drink the blood.

Police officers executing court warrants must have a copy in their possession when executing it and certificated bailiffs should not be exempt from similar requirement either. My gut-feeling is that the provisions that are causing the problem were inserted after heavy lobbying from predictable enough quarters.

If the coalition government want their proposed reforms of the civil enforcement industry to be taken seriously, they must amend existing legislation and make it a legal requirement for ALL certificated bailiffs to have a copy of any court warrant issued to them in their possession and to allow the debtor/defaulter to inspect it, not the current situation where scope for abuse, fraud and intimidation is far too wide.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

So it seems from the above that the bailiff can just leave the information above in any form, it does not have to be contained within the warrant. However the actual document must be made available for inspection if the debtor asks.

The so-and-sos don't have the original court warrant with them because they know the debtor/defaulter would realise, straightaway, that the bailiff was being very economical with the actualities. It goes back to the phrase I have seen on LB many times... BAILIFFS LIE.

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

The so-and-sos don't have the original court warrant with them because they know the debtor/defaulter would realise, straightaway, that the bailiff was being very economical with the actualities. It goes back to the phrase I have seen on LB many times... BAILIFFS LIE.

Indeed they do, which is why we have to be very careful that when we catch them in the act we have our facts right.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Needs a cast iron case with the whole icidentcaught on a CCTV system leaving the bailiff high and dry spouting to the police as he is carted off in cuffs "I wuz stitched up like a kipper guv"

[labman]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

The so-and-sos don't have the original court warrant with them because they know the debtor/defaulter would realise, straightaway, that the bailiff was being very economical with the actualities. It goes back to the phrase I have seen on LB many times... BAILIFFS LIE.

You are probably right, but sadly it is supposition, not fact, so while we probably all agree, it is only supposition.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Needs a cast iron case with the whole icidentcaught on a CCTV system leaving the bailiff high and dry spouting to the police as he is carted off in cuffs "I wuz stitched up like a kipper guv"

As I am not familiar with that method of preparing fish, can you explain how needlework is used to make kippers?

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

You are probably right, but sadly it is supposition, not fact, so while we probably all agree, it is only supposition.

It's how most con artists work, Labman. They don't let their victims see anything that would blow the gaffe on the fraud. In order to deal with crims, you have to think like one. If you were a bent bailiff wanting to rip-off a debtor, would you let the debtor see a document that proved you were trying to rip them off? Not bloomin' likely.