Marston baillifs - please help

[mon1985]

Hello,

It's my first time here. I'll try to explain the situation but forgive me if I'm difficult to understand but I have been up since 6:10 - oh yes Marston bailiffs.

Ok to cut the story short - my boyfriend wasn;t paying the TV licence and got caught in December. We moved in February and the case went to court etc etc but the documentation and the fine info was sent to the old address so I/we had no idea. 2 weeks ago we got a letter from Marston saying my bf(it was in his name) owes 775 and when he rang up to get the details it turned out it's the TV licence. The Marston woman came back again a couple of days ago so he called the court and explained the situation. He was informed he needs to come in and declare that he wasn't there (i don't know the legal name for it). It was agreed yesterday he would come on Friday 28th. Today at 6:10 Marston people came saying they have the warrant and they will be taking possession of his car. He said fine, the car is on lease, it's not mine and explained that he had already spoken to the court to which she replied "I don't care!" - charming lady indeed. They were banging on the door but we ignored them so they blocked his car and waited until 8.30. At 8.30 they came with the police. Now from what I understand distress warrant does not grant you entry right especially if it's not signed or not signed by the judge. And the police was meant to be there to keep the peace. Now the woman pushed her way in and my boyfriend was trying to block her and the police handcuffed him and said that Marston had a warrant so they have the legal right to enter. They were trying to arrest my bf who clearly knows more about the law then they did. I was quite calm but what really annoyed me and this is when i started to shout and was threatened that i'm disturbing the peace and will be cuffed as well was that they started looking at my stuff and writing it down. It is not my fine, it has absolutely nothing to do with me, yes my boyfreind lives with me but all the equipment is mine. She said I need to prove it with receipts! I don't have a credit card receipt for a 10 year old computer or a £300 TV that was paid in cash!!!!!I went mad at her. After 9 o'clock when they actually checked with the court that indeed he made an appointment they left and said he has 7 days but his court date is in 8 days so they will be back again on Thursday! How can I protect my goods???!!! Some of the stuff was paid via credit card etc but not everything! It is NOT my fine as far as I am aware they were disturbing my peace.

[scooter lady]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Hi there, I am sorry this has happened to you. The Marston Group are total BEEPERS. I have had a similar experience with them a few months ago and I am now in my own wrangle with them. I do not have the experience in these matters to advice you but I am sure you will get great advice soon. The people on here are really friendly and non-judgemental.

I just wanted to send some empathy to you because what they do has to be accounted for as they destroy people with police help. I really hope you can get it sorted hun x x x

[wales01man]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Wait for Bluebottles advice its the best their is

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Right. In this case, Marston Group have gone too far. Which police force was involved, please? The police officers who handcuffed your boyfriend are in for an early crucifixion and so is the bailiff. Their actions were, in the circumstances, totally illegal.

Speak to the HMCTS Enforcement Manager for the court involved and ask if Marston Group had written authorisation from the court to force entry. If the answer is that they did not, the bailiff is serious trouble and so are the police officers who assisted the bailiff to gain entry.

When you or your boyfriend speak to the HMCTS Enforcement Manager, explain that the bailiff has checked with the court, but has threatened to return before the Statutory Declaration is due to be sworn at the court and that you require HMCTS to restrain not only that particular bailiff, but Marston Group also. This is because they are threatening to seize third-party goods, which is illegal. Also ask for the name and postal address of the HMCTS Regional Contracts Manager.

That deals with the bailiff. Now for the police officers. Once you have checked with the HMCTS Enforcement Manager and established if the bailiff had lawful authority to force entry to your home, go to the police station where the police officers involved are based and ask to speak to the Station Superintendent. The Civilian Support Staff on the front desk may try to fob you off with the Duty Officer (usually, an Inspector). Whilst this is correct, you do not have to speak to the Duty Officer. It is your choice if you wish to speak to the Station Superintendent. What these officers did amounts to abuse of their authority and, potentially, aiding and abetting a criminal offence, i.e. Burglary.

The fact is that police officers receive little if any training in bailiff law and, as a result, certificated bailiffs lie and misrepresent their authority to the police who, because of their lack of appropriate training, unwittingly aid and abet certificated bailiffs to commit criminal offences.

[Somecamel]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Hi BlueBottle,

Thanks for your help. I am the accused Mon1985's other half.

I've called the Enforcement officer and he has confirmed that there is no written authority to forcibly enter my home, he went on a bit about how they are allowed to enter peacefully etc and I told him this hadn't happened.

I rang the police this morning and asked for a crime reference number for Aggrevated trespass (i had already verbally withdrawn the bailiffs right of implied access the other night when they called). They didn't want to give me one and had a sergeant call me.

He basically said he was happy with the behavior of his officers and doesn't think they did anything wrong.

The Police stated to me at the door that if I didn't let the Bailiff in they would arrest me, I said go on then and put my hands behind my back. They cuffed me (not arrested) and let the bailiff in. I stated at the time that I do not consent to them entering my premises. After going into the bedroom for me to sit whilst the bailiff had a walk around I asked him if I was actually arrested to which he said no and I asked him to remove the cuffs. They didn't have the key with them!! so had to wait 20 mins for someone to turn up with the key. (funny when you think about it).

Going back to the bailiff actually trying to get in.

The conversation wasnt going anywhere. I told them I had arranged with the court to go next Friday and she called me a liar.

She then said she had had enough and she's coming in whereby she attempted to push me back. She got a leg in which i then pushed back out.
The police man behind me then grabbed hold of my arm in an attempt to move me out of the way, I declined and politely asked him to remove his hand, he obliged, this was when the other one said he would arrest me if I didn't let them in. The police kept on stating they had the legal right to enter.

Hope I haven't waffled too much but I'm prepared to fight this all the way, I'm so sick of the way the powers that be think they can bully us into submission.

The only thing that worried me slightly was on the Sticky on this forum http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...s-Courts-Fines there is a bit at the bottom that states this

Forced Entry
One of the most common worries about bailiffs is the claim they can force entry. With a Magistrates’ Court fine, if the bailiff is pursuing you for an unpaid fine for a criminal offence they do have the right to force entry. Usually this is used as a threat, but in these circumstances, the threat should never be taken lightly. The rules only apply to the Magistrates’ Court though, they do not cover things such as unpaid council tax, unpaid business rates, CSA arrears, parking fines and congestion charges and others.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

The reality is that the bailiff MUST have written authorisation from the court to force entry and it can only be used in cases of PERSISTENT non-payment of fines. This does not appear to have happened in your case. It is clearly evident the bailiff lied to the police and misrepresented their authority. This may provide grounds for making a formal complaint against the bailiff to the court that issued their certificate which may result in the court cancelling their certificate. This sort of incident is sufficient to bring into question the bailiff's fitness to act as a bailiff.

The offence the bailiff committed is not Aggravated Trespass. It is Attempted Burglary and the police officers who unwittingly assisted the bailiff to enter are probably guilty of Aiding and Abetting Attempted Burglary. However, it may also be Burglary Artifice, as the bailiff made a false statement in order to gain entry.

As far as pursuing this with the police goes, if you read my previous post, I recommended this matter is pursued directly with the Station Superintendent. I am not shifting from this advice. This is the most senior officer at a police station and is the officer-in-charge. What happened is serious and the police officers involved could lose their jobs if this matter is pursued at higher level, i.e. Divisional Commander (usually, a Chief Superintendent), Chief Constable or IPCC.

I would also get a formal complaint off to the HMCTS Regional Contracts manager and write to the Area HMCTS Enforcement Manager you spoke to, confirming your conversation.

Would you also please post the name of the police force involved?

[Somecamel]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

It was Sussex Police, Do you have anywhere where it states all this offically? Not that I disbeleive you, just that I will find it hard reffering them to a forum

They wanted me to look at the direct.gov site for guidance but that is all written in there favour

[mon1985]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

The police seems to believe that this is the law - distress warrant gives a bailiff a legal right to enter the premises and wouldn't listen to any other explanation

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

I am a retired police officer and have studied law since retiring. A lot of the information I have post is based on my knowledge and experience and research.

A distress warrant only allows a bailiff to attend. It does not confer any right of entry. In fact, a bailiff has no right of entry whatsoever, unless authorised, in writing, by a court. I will look through this thread again and identify the relevant legislation for you.

It does not surprise me that Sussex Police are involved in this. They came out of an appeal at Hove Crown Court last week very badly, along with a local authority and their contracted bailiff company, all of whom are now placing bulk orders for Imodium Plus as the appellant is going to pursue them for Trespass, Assault, Wrongful Arrest, Unlawful Detention, False Imprisonment and Malicious Prosecution. The LA is guilty of a serious administrative error that lead to the incident that, consequently, lead to the appeal.

[mon1985]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

It doesn't surprise me. They don't seem to know what they are doing.

Even on the doc gov website which they referred us to it states clearly that:
Bailiffs are allowed to force their way into your home to collect unpaid criminal fines, Income Tax or VAT, but only as a last resort.
I don't think our case calls for such drastic measures especially when the date with the court was agreed. We explained everything as it was, produced some evidence but it wasn't enough. Looking at the amount of posts regarding Marston they are trying to bring some money in to the household before Christmas.

I am really unhappy about how the police handled it. They definitely weren't impartial, they restrained Somecamel so that the bailiff can enter the property and invited them in as instructed by their sergeant. I am worried though that if we take it higher up they will just say we're wrong again.

Thank you so much bluebottle for your advice and expertise. I don't think it can be left as it is as it caused us too much stress and it's not even the end yet...

[wales01man]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Looks like this needs to be taken high up in the police if a sergeant dont know the rules on bailiffs he should be taught pretty damn quick there is no need for behaviour like this i alwaysthought the police were neutral in civil disputes brings the police service into disrepute again little wonder public trust of them is at an all time low,
Please take this further next time a bailiff acts like this the police should know what to do.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

As said previously, this needs to be escalated through the police complaint route which is -

Duty Officer (usually, an Inspector) -> Station Superintendent -> Divisional Commander (usually, a Chief Superintendent) -> Chief Constable -> Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC)

I would miss out the Duty Officer and go straight to the Station Superintendent. This matter is too serious to be dealt with at Duty Officer level. There is evidence of professional incompetence and, potentially, criminal conduct by police officers. The officers involved, regardless of rank, could lose their jobs if it goes to a Conduct Hearing.

However, cluelessness isn't just restricted to Constables and Sergeants. A recent response to a query I put to ACPO recently as to whether they have a policy as regards certificated bailiffs, confirms cluelessness about the Law of Distress and the powers of bailiffs goes right to the top of the police service. ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) represents police officers of the rank of Chief Superintendent and above, up to and including the Commissioners of the Metropolitan Police and City of London Police. I think educating them as to the reality of the Law of Distress and the powers of bailiffs is long overdue and certainly in order.

[mon1985]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Bluebottle, what is the best way of making a complaint to the police - in person or in writing or both? How should we approach them?

[enquirer]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Bluebottle, what is the best way of making a complaint to the police - in person or in writing or both? How should we approach them?

In writing, to the Chief Constable. Make it clear that the complaint is so serious that it is unsuitable for informal resolution. Refuse all telephone or email contact. Everything from this point on to be conducted in writing. Under no circumstances go to the police station. If they need a statement, make them visit you at home.

[Somecamel]

Re: Marston baillifs - please help

Marston group Limited has a CCJ from Dec 2007- Funny