Visit for Marston Bailiff

[philrp1000]

Can you help!
My son runs a small car body shop, yesterday he had a visit from a person claiming to be a bailiff working for the Marston Group. This was an unexpected visit and the individual walked straight into the workshop asked my sons name before acting in a aggrieve manor, he told my son that he was here to take goods in execution of a Notice of Seizure, my son was taken by surprise by this and forcibly told him that he could not do this. The officer in question flashed his badge and continue to tell my son that he could and would take everything to the point of saying that he could make him bankrupt. He then produced a “Notice of Seizure” and did not leave until my son paid £100.
The notice covered an outstanding claim by a third party which we were aware of and had made an offer to pay via a CCJ posted in May but as yet had not received any communication to state that they were happy to agree to the settlement, also we had not received any other form of communication to state that we were in breach of this settlement.
Marston are now asking for the following Judgment debt £663.76, Judgment costs £70, Execution costs £111.75, Interest to date £2.09, Officer frees £349.69 + fee increase of 29p per day until settled.
As a result I read some of the advice on your forum and took the following action
1/ Check to see if the Bailiff was register via you website link, Certificated Bailiff Register, and found that his certificate had expired on the 2^nd Dec 2012, this visit took place on the 18^th Dec 2012
2/ On finding this, I then phoned the Ministry of Justice as per your link, to see if his certificate was being processed and had not yet been entered on the system, they put me through to their Northampton office who then refereed me to Edmonton CC.
3/ I phone Edmonton CC who said they were unable to confirm as the person who would know was out of the office and could I please make the request in writing. I responded that with the holiday period approaching and the need to resolve this issue quickly that this was unacceptable and after checking with a manger was told to call back tomorrow (20^th) and speak to 1 of 2 people that could help.

I know that my son has made some errors handling the event i.e. not signing anything, paying money and entering into heated discussion but he has never experienced this type of event before and it came as a complete surprise.

After talking to him and reading the advice on your forum I think that the process prior to this event and during this event was not followed. The debit is not in question and he had agreed to pay it back in May but now he finds that the debit is almost twice what it was and at no time has he been allowed to present his side of the claim.
Any help would be most welcome
Phil

[bluebottle]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

Hi Phil and welcome to LB.

Marston Group bailiffs are known for their aggressive behaviour, dishonesty and rank in the evolutionary chain as house-trained baboons.

Is this bailiff acting as a High Court Enforcement Officer (HCEO) as the CCJ amount can be enforced by a Court Bailiff or an HCEO. Certificated Bailiffs do not enforce CCJs.

[philrp1000]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

Hi Bluebottle, The paper work left by the bailiff is as follows

prescribed form 55
Notice of Seizure
In the high court of Justice
Queens Bench Division
Cardiff District Registry
on Transfer from CCMCC Northampton County Court Country Court

I have the document and can scan and post if required

[labman]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

Have a read of this:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...s-%28HCEO-s%29

[bluebottle]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

Then he is an HCEO and can force his way into business premises. He should have a certificate from HMCTS stating that he is an HCEO. Go to the link Labman has kindly provided and read what is there. HCEOs can be very inventive with their fees.

[philrp1000]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

Hi Guys, thanks, have read the link, as I understand it we need to raise the N244 form to stop them entering the building (for info the link to the form is broken and should now be http://hmctscourtfinder.justice.gov....s/n244-eng.pdf)

Is this correct - sorry if I am asking silly question but this is all new to me?

As a point of referance on the notice under the section entitled "Take Notice" section 2 it talks to the goods seized are now in custody and must not be removed, sold or otherwised disposed. I have been told, right or wrong that the officer should have labeled up the items to be seized, this has not been done, again is this a break is process or is my information incorrect.

Thanks in advance guys

[labman]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

Correct on all points. The N244 should stop enforcement action.

[ploddertom]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

As far as the bailiff Register is concerned, those acting as HCEO's do not appear on here - that does not mean to say he does not have a Certificate but is not relying on it in this case.

Did your son know about the original CCJ?

[philrp1000]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

Hi ploddertom,
we were not aware about any CCJ until the original CCJ paper work was sent in May 2012, once received I helped him fill out the paper work and read what steps would follow once we replied. From my understanding they would take the offer of payment, amount per month and number of months and pass that to the creditor, if they agreed then we would be informed and once informed he would start payment. At this time he pleged £100 per month for 7 months. My son did not receive any reply and was still waiting when all this kicked off, also he had no comms to state he had missed any payments.

[philrp1000]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

OK 2 things happened today,

1/ first was a letter from Marstons that confirmed their visit on the 18th and listed a number of items that they would seize, all theres items are tools of my sons trade i.e. Spray booth, air compressor, car ramp Paint spay equipment hand tools with the exception of a printer and computer. As these items are tools of the trade which with out he can not work is the list valid. Also none of these items have been tagged or were listed on the original document given to my son on the 18th. Am I right in thinking that they can only remove the computer and printer.

2/ I maged to reach someone in the Edmonton CC office today who confirmed that the baliff does not hold a Bailiff's General certificate because it expired on 2nd December 2012, over the phone the office did admit that it was up for review but the review was due to happen on the 28th of Feb 2013. I did ask why there was a delay in its issue and there was a hint that there was some form of problem but thats as far as it went and quite righ to.

Now heres were I get confused! in executing the "Notice of Seizure" from the high court of Justice does our baliff have to have a Bailiff's General certificate or is there some other form of authoratie that he carries which superceeds this and if so can I do a check of some kind.

[philrp1000]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

Continue from post 10

Further to the letter sent I am also concerned about the way it has been constucted.

1/ The letter is not signed by and individual but simply "Marston Group Limited", there is no contact name in it contents therefore we have no point of referance as to would authorised it etc

2/ The list of items is on a seperate page on letter heads but again not signed and not attached in any way to the first letter.


Is this normal

[bluebottle]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

OK 2 things happened today,

1/ first was a letter from Marstons that confirmed their visit on the 18th and listed a number of items that they would seize, all theres items are tools of my sons trade i.e. Spray booth, air compressor, car ramp Paint spay equipment hand tools with the exception of a printer and computer. As these items are tools of the trade which with out he can not work is the list valid. Also none of these items have been tagged or were listed on the original document given to my son on the 18th. Am I right in thinking that they can only remove the computer and printer.

2/ I maged to reach someone in the Edmonton CC office today who confirmed that the baliff does not hold a Bailiff's General certificate because it expired on 2nd December 2012, over the phone the office did admit that it was up for review but the review was due to happen on the 28th of Feb 2013. I did ask why there was a delay in its issue and there was a hint that there was some form of problem but thats as far as it went and quite righ to.

Now heres were I get confused! in executing the "Notice of Seizure" from the high court of Justice does our baliff have to have a Bailiff's General certificate or is there some other form of authoratie that he carries which superceeds this and if so can I do a check of some kind.

He has to have a certificate issued by HMCTS, confirming he is an HCEO. He should have shown this when he barged into the workshop and started throwing his weight about.

[ploddertom]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

OK 2 things happened today,

1/ first was a letter from Marstons that confirmed their visit on the 18th and listed a number of items that they would seize, all theres items are tools of my sons trade i.e. Spray booth, air compressor, car ramp Paint spay equipment hand tools with the exception of a printer and computer. As these items are tools of the trade which with out he can not work is the list valid. Also none of these items have been tagged or were listed on the original document given to my son on the 18th. Am I right in thinking that they can only remove the computer and printer.

2/ I maged to reach someone in the Edmonton CC office today who confirmed that the baliff does not hold a Bailiff's General certificate because it expired on 2nd December 2012, over the phone the office did admit that it was up for review but the review was due to happen on the 28th of Feb 2013. I did ask why there was a delay in its issue and there was a hint that there was some form of problem but thats as far as it went and quite righ to. In this case the Certificate is not relevant.

Now heres were I get confused! in executing the "Notice of Seizure" from the high court of Justice does our baliff have to have a Bailiff's General certificate or is there some other form of authoratie that he carries which superceeds this and if so can I do a check of some kind. There is no way of checking Enforcement Agents working on behalf of a HCEO

PTPT

[ploddertom]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

Rather than argue about the pro's & cons of a Certificate that in this case is not relevant you need to get cracking sorting the problem out. Of course with the time of year time is very short.

I gather from what you have said he is in position to pay this off at all. In that case he should try & apply for a Variation Order whereby the Court can set the level of payments. There is one difficulty with this and that is all businees debts are usually classed as Forthwith meaning all has to be paid in one go, however some Judges are realistic enough to see that in the present climate this is not always possible, but it is worth a try. He will have to supply a comprehensive I&E. The application is made on Form N245 available from HMCTS website, cost £45.

The most urgent problem is dealing with the HCEO. You may apply for a Stay of Execution which if granted halts all further enforcement action and charges. The grounds you may apply on are:
a - you cannot afford the fees demanded
b - pending determination of a Variation Order
c - the HCEO is threatening to remove & seized goods need for the business.
This is applied for on Form N244, cost £80, if thinking of doing this I have a guide that may help filling in the Form.

If on a low wage or certain Benefits then the Court Fees may be waived, see Forms EX160a & c for details.

[bluebottle]

Re: Visit for Marston Bailiff

Please remember that an HCEO's certificate and a certificated bailiff's certificate are completely different in format. I'm attaching a copy of the HCEO Register as published by the MoJ.