Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

[pepsie]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Form 4 appertains to a complaint about the bailiff himself but before you submit it you will need to have prepared a watertight statement...his reply will be 'I was only doing my job' and he will deny everything and anything that suggests he has done any wrong.. do you have any independent witness's? Personally I would put the form 4 on hold as it can prove a costly exercise if he turns up at the hearing with a barrister as their fees can look like the national debt!!!

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Form 4 appertains to a complaint about the bailiff himself but before you submit it you will need to have prepared a watertight statement...his reply will be 'I was only doing my job' and he will deny everything and anything that suggests he has done any wrong.. do you have any independent witness's? Personally I would put the form 4 on hold as it can prove a costly exercise if he turns up at the hearing with a barrister as their fees can look like the national debt!!!

Thank you.Fortunately we do have the witness who was on the property and he has complained to the police over assault(even though they say there is not enough evidence for assault they urged us to seek the civil route) We now find that two other people saw the baillif and locksmith and also saw Mr James Cannon who was on the premises protesting from inside the premises to the bailif and locksmith. Also myself and my partner are witnesses to the baillifs comment inside the premises. Rivington still have not responded to requests for the name of the person who did this and if fact the police have not replied either as yet. The police assured us that Rivingtons would furnish us with that information.My belief is the police contacted Rivingtons and accepted whatever they said. I have no information as to the police interviewing the person over the assault or even if they did in fact do so.

[bluebottle]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Bluebottle you seem to have a better handle on your advice, thank you.Thank you all.I do not need any information other than that surrounding the entry and i do not want to make any mistakes regarding the form 4 and give them any reason to be able to avoid paying for what these people did to us.At present the person who was in the cafe is making a statement to atach to the form 4.Not the police statement but a detailed one about the entry in complete minor detail.We also have another witness from the shop opposite that saw the two people tampering with the lock and the person in the premises shouting at them.We hope she is willing to put it in writing but i think that we already have enough to prove the illegal entry.Section 6 of the law act clearly states that it is an offence to enter a property to forfeit while a person on the premises objects to the entry.The fact that the person inside claims assault further compounds the ations of the perpatrator in this as he had no right in the first place to enter with a person on the premises.
I believe that to be correct Bluebottle any action once the baillif or whoever it was enterered while there was a person objecting the resulting assault becomes more serious as he breached the door and then assaulted a person lawfully going about his business at his place of work.

Could you please post the name of the Act of Parliament you are referring to with regard to it being an offence to enter a property to forfeit whilst a person on the premises objects to the entry?

Reading through what you have posted, Razorfishing, and please correct me if I am wrong in my deduction, but it appears to me that there was an agreement between you and the landlord that he or they owed money to yourself for building work. If this was in writing, it is enforceable. What it appears he has done is collude with Rivingtons in order to avoid payment of what he owed by falsely claiming a breach of lease. That is an offence called Evasion of A Liability by Deception, contrary to Section 2(1), Theft Act 1978.

My gut-feeling is that this will need to be investigated by police officers with specialist training in Fraud. It is not something that uniformed officers would be trained to investigate. It is possible that an Economic Crime Unit would need to investigate this matter, especially where the finance company is involved. Any collusion between them and the landlord would need to be established or ruled-out.

Whatever happens, this landlord may have done this once too often and your case may well be the one that brings his or their days of cheating and treating tenants badly to an end. Hold fire on the Form 4 complaint for the timebeing as there may be criminal liability that can be attached to the bailiff and locksmith.

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Could you please post the name of the Act of Parliament you are referring to with regard to it being an offence to enter a property to forfeit whilst a person on the premises objects to the entry?

Reading through what you have posted, Razorfishing, and please correct me if I am wrong in my deduction, but it appears to me that there was an agreement between you and the landlord that he or they owed money to yourself for building work. If this was in writing, it is enforceable. What it appears he has done is collude with Rivingtons in order to avoid payment of what he owed by falsely claiming a breach of lease. That is an offence called Evasion of A Liability by Deception, contrary to Section 2(1), Theft Act 1978.

My gut-feeling is that this will need to be investigated by police officers with specialist training in Fraud. It is not something that uniformed officers would be trained to investigate. It is possible that an Economic Crime Unit would need to investigate this matter, especially where the finance company is involved. Any collusion between them and the landlord would need to be established or ruled-out.

Whatever happens, this landlord may have done this once too often and your case may well be the one that brings his or their days of cheating and treating tenants badly to an end. Hold fire on the Form 4 complaint for the timebeing as there may be criminal liability that can be attached to the bailiff and locksmith.

I knew you had got the the gist Bluebottle and you are right in your assuptions the law act is under sec 1.2.1. section 6 Violence for securing entry of the criminal law act 1977.
I am going to post you my contact number Bluebottle as i think you have a real handle on this. If you leave a mess on phone i will contact you if you agree Razorsfishing.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Hello Razor,

Sorry to butt in on this thread, but for your security normally we don't put phone numbers in thread.
As you want to leave this for BB I have asked for an edit on the post and sent the number via PM to bluebottle

No disrespect intended guys, simply looking out for you

BB pm from me imminent hun

p

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Hello Razor,

Sorry to butt in on this thread, but for your security normally we don't put phone numbers in thread.
As you want to leave this for BB I have asked for an edit on the post and sent the number via PM to bluebottle

No disrespect intended guys, simply looking out for you

BB pm from me imminent hun

p

Thank you for that i am not familiar with your proceedures.Hopefully BB will contact me as he has grasped the matter and his experience is valuable to me at present. Already our loss adjusters have asked in house for what happened to be researched internally.Its a start but this has to be brought before a judge for a judgement.Personally i feel that Rivington are trying to shield their perpatrator and if we do manage to get the info required they will try to drop this baillif or whoever like a hot cake. I have the persons statement who was in the premise but do not know how to post. If you wish me to do so i can scan it but would need to be told how to post it on the sight. Razorsfishing

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

no prob razor hun

Part of the LB experience is, we watch each other's back

or as we used to say on B.R wwma (whos watching my @rse!)

Tc and good luck hun

p

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Thank you just sent a pm to bb as he seems to know about this kind of entry. I,ll post the witness statement when i am told how to Ha Ha.
Thanks for the help guys.

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Could you please let me know the name of these two baillifs in case one is the one we are looking for. Thank you

[ploddertom]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Could you please let me know the name of these two baillifs in case one is the one we are looking for. Thank you

Rather than name names on here which could leave the site open to litigation then look up the Certificated Bailiff Register http://certificatedbailiffs.justice....catedBailiffs/ and type into the search box "rivington associates ltd" - minus the quotes, and it will reveal who they are.

[bluebottle]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Rather than name names on here which could leave the site open to litigation then look up the Certificated Bailiff Register http://certificatedbailiffs.justice....catedBailiffs/ and type into the search box "rivington associates ltd" - minus the quotes, and it will reveal who they are.

Tried that, PT. Comes back No Trace. A Form 4 complaint, in this matter, is not appropriate as both the bailiff and the locksmith have committed a criminal offence under Section 6, Criminal Law Act 1977. It would have been better if the person inside the cafe had lamped the bailiff one. The bailiff would not be able to claim he was acting lawfully as a number of independent witnesses saw the bailiff and locksmith attempting to force entry with the person still inside the cafe. The police force involved are known for its "can't be arsed" attitude. However, I suspect this attitude comes from the upper reaches of the force, rather then the lower reaches.

[ploddertom]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Are you sure you are trying it without the quote marks?

[bluebottle]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Are you sure you are trying it without the quote marks?

They are well-known for their lack of interest and action. Where there is clear evidence of a crime having been committed, they should act. The chief constable needs to give some straight answers - and fast - as to why his officers seem reluctant to act.

[pepsie]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

http://www.rivingtonassociates.co.uk/

[razorsfishing]

Re: Illegall forfeit on commercial lease.

Well would you believe it.Now i threatend a form 4 to Rivingtons along with the interest of my local mp and also OFT and FSA and the ombudsman. Rivingtons now state they will respond in 7 to 14 days.The guy who was on the premises is also filing a complaint of the bailiffs actions and is going to see about a personal injury claim for trama and assault.The poor guy is a student studying business and the whole thing has affected his studies as well.Hopefully they will give the name but if not they will then become responsible and we will still use for 4 but with their name and an accompanying letter to the court explaining they refused to give us the name of the person for who actions we wish to complain to the court about.Its a start!!!!