Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

[BellaJB]

Hi everyone, thank you for reading this, I really hope someone can help me.

My partner and I began having financial difficulties about 2 yrs ago when he had to close down his business. He found a job not long afterwards but is still low paid. I have recently returned to work after being at home with our two young kids, but I too am in a low paid job. We have council tax arrears from last year, totalling approx £750. Stupidly I ignored all the letters they sent us, guess hiding my head in the sand too afraid to deal with it. About 6 months ago, our account was passed to an enforcement agency/bailiffs. Knew at that point I could ignore it no longer, and they turned up and put a walking possession order on our car. I sought advice from Citizens Advice who started to look into us doing a Debt Relief Order, and so the council tax account was put on hold. I transferred ownership of the car into my dad's name just in case. But since I have returned to work, we no longer fit the criteria for a DRO, and so the council tax account was re-activated. I had a meeting with the Citz Advice again yesterday to work out a prospective payment plan for council tax arrears and for a possible debt management plan for the rest of our creditors. CAB put our offer of payment directly to the council who refused saying it was in bailiffs hands now and they could do nothing. CAB were going to put the offer directly to the bailiffs today, but before they could, the bailiffs turned up. They have not been inside the house at any point, I told them CAB were dealing but he wasnt interested, said they were wanting full payment (which is now £1050 incl fees). I told him we couldnt pay that up front and asked him to leave. He then told me he'd be back at 6am tomorrow with a van, and handed me a Removal Notice.

I have since spoken to the CAB advisor dealing with my case. She says the bailiffs have flatly refused our repayment offer of £80 per mth and can no longer do anything to prevent them from coming to our house. She did however advise that the best thing we could do, would be to pay the £80 to the bailiffs anyway and to ignore their visits/threats etc, in the hope that they'll refer it back to the courts and we can ask for an attachement of earnings instead. I have therefore paid £80 directly to the bailiffs today. Was I wrong in doing this? Should I have paid the council directly?

I have kept the car away from our home tonight, but we do have my brother in law's car outside for a few weeks while he's away. Should I also move that away from the house too?

The council have advised they would consider an attachement of earnings if we pay the bailiffs fees now. Are there any options or better ways of persuading them to take the debt back?

I'm at home this week because my son has chicken pox and I am really worried about the bailiffs turning up again. I seem to have hit a brick wall with this and just don't know what else to do. Can anyone offer advice please, I'd be very grateful.

Thank you in advance!

[pepsie]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

The Council cannot refuse your payments by law and there is no law that says you have to deal or speak with a bailiff.!!! Start paying the £80 a month direct to the Council using their online payment facilities quoting the correct reference number, (you will find that on your CT bill)

Continue to refuse this bailiff access to your home and remove any goods belonging to you from outside your home he could make a levy on, keep all doors and windows secure.

You must check the facts to what you are being charged and you do that by phoning the Council to ask;

How many liability orders they have for you
When were they obtained
how much for
When were they passed to the bailiffs for action.
How much is outstanding

then follow up with the Acme letter adapted to suit to the bailiff
To:
Acme Bailiff Co
Bailiff House

Ref: Account No: 123456

Dear Sir

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

This includes:
a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.
b - the reason for the fee.
c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.
d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.
e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

Yours faithfully

Ripped off customer"

Do not be surprised when you expose discrepancies to the actual amount owed and the bailiff demand. Finally, bailiffs are infamous for lying and the threats to forcing entry, bringing the police, arresting you, imprisionment, putting the kids in care, selling the pet rabbit to the butcher and putting grannie in a home are all on a par with fairy tales by the Brothers Grimm. Get that 1st payment made asap and make sure the next follows on the same date thereafter and the bailiff will move to pastures new. Once you get the above info come back here and we will tell you what you do need to budget for with their 'fees'.

Pepsie

[ploddertom]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

Firstly, there is no law that says you have to speak to or deal with a Bailiff. Regardless of anything they may say the Council can indeed take the debt back from the Bailiff but choose not to. The way forward in my view is to pay the Council direct via online banking, Council website or automated phone, you may also pay in cash at their office and if that is met with refusal you politely ask for the name & position of the person refusing as that will form the basis of any complaint you then make. Paying by any of these methods means you must budget extra for any lawfully incurred Bailiff fees.

Providing you deny the Bailiff entry to your home or otherwise prevent him making a levy on goods outside means you are liable only for the minimum amount of fees £24-50 1st Visit & £18-00 2nd Visit, total £42-50. He may only seize the goods of the debtor meaning either yours or your OH's. usual trick they try is to claim they have made a levy on a vehicle in the street then ask you to prove you don't own it.

If he visits speak to him through the letterbox or an upstairs window and where possible record the conversation. Do NOT ring him as they tend to have selective memory on recall. Any payments you make direct to the Council are better done weekly - £10 every Thursday as an example - this quickly builds a payment history should the Council try to seek further enforcement action and shows you as a can't pay rather than a won't pay.

Once the Bailiff realises he is getting nowhere he will eventually move on to patures new but it will not happen overnight - could take up to 3 months. He will threaten all sorts including - Police, Locksmiths, imprisonment, taking any children into care. He can do none of these and uses these tactics as a means of trying to get you to pay. Remain strong and you will be able to stick more than 2 fingers up at him.

[BellaJB]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

Thanks both, really appreciate the quick replies! No sign of the bailiffs as yet today though the house is still in lock down . We're keeping our car away from our house as much as possible, though not particularly practical all the time with two little ones and two jobs. Do you think it would be safe to bring it home at night and on weekends? We're both out by about 7.45 at the latest in the mornings. We'll park my brother in laws car around the corner as well for now as they won't necessarily associate that car with us.

I'll pay weekly amounts directly to the council from now on too and leave out the bailiffs altogether. I have also shown my partner this so he knows if he's here and they turn up, what to/not to do. So I'm guessing the £80 I've paid to the bailiffs will just get lost in their fees? The original CT amount of £750 was made up of 2 different accounts, am thinking the bailiffs are charging two sets of fees for each visit, we've only had 2 visits from them that I know of, so surely that cant amount to £300+ in their fees?

I also wanted to check access to our property. The front door is always locked so thats not an issue, but we have a path to the side of our house leading to the back garden. There's a metal side gate to stop access but it's only about a metre high. We do have this padlocked to stop the kids wandering out front, but are the bailiffs allowed to step/climb over this to get access to the back garden do you know?

Thanks again, I'll get onto the bailiffs letter this afternoon. x

[pepsie]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

Re: bringing the car home at nights...it is seen acceptable for a bailiff to work 6am-9pm Mon-Sat but if you saw the Exposure program you will recall they don't abide by the rules ..so better kept away for the time being..unless you have a garage? I note you say the car is not registered to you but this was not done until after the car was levied upon? technically the car became the bailiffs once the levy had been done but don't panic, as there is room here for argument if it comes to it.

The gate...yes he is allowed to climb over it to the garden as long as he causes no damage, hence the previous advice to remove anything of value outside the home ..quality cast iron garden furniture, lawnmower etc and get them under lock and key.

Accounts: you really must contact the Council and get the info I posted, this will identify what is owed exactly to each account..the bailiff cannot charge multiple fees for attending with two LO's on the same day, so again you need to identify exactly what fees have been added to the account and where your £80 went by sending the bailiff letter.

Paying on the same day every week will very quickly show a history of intention to pay..that stops the Council in their tracks from apply for a warrant of committal, this is only ever done when the debtor shows no intention to paying.

Pepsie

[BellaJB]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

Ok, have spoken to the council who have advised of the following;

There are two liability orders in place £139.24 obtained on 4th November 2011, and £702.15 obtained on 16th Dec 2011.
Account 1 was passed to bailiffs on 25th Nov, and 2 on 20th Jan 2012.

The amounts o/s as far as council are concerned are still the same plus fees. We have made payments totalling £289 to the bailiffs.

Breakdown of accounts are as follows;

Account 1

1st visit £22.50 + £25.00 Levy fee - 15th December 2011
£80 attendance fee with a view to remove - 24th January 2012

Payments totalling £90 made on this account

Account 2

1st visit £22.50 + £44.00 Levy fee + £220.00 attendance fee - 7th Feb 2012

Payments totalling £199.00 made on this account.

I personally can only recall two visits from the bailiffs, although it is possible the supposed 3rd has slipped my memory. The dates the council have said we've made payment do seem to coincide with the bailiff visits, but in all honesty its the 24th Jan visit I have no memory of at all!

I'll print off the bailiff letter tonight and send that off, but do these fees look right do you think?

Bit worried that bailiffs can just climb over our side gate. What would happen if the kids were playing out the back when they did that?

[pepsie]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

I am a bit tied up at the moment but either myself or perhaps PT will get back to you asap. NO is the short answer, the fees need to be looked at closely...also the gap between visits is what I was looking for....you will possibly be able to argue the levy was abandoned but again a closer look is needed.

Back asap.

Pepsoe

[ploddertom]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

Where did the breakdowns come from - also see comments below.

Ok, have spoken to the council who have advised of the following;

There are two liability orders in place £139.24 obtained on 4th November 2011, and £702.15 obtained on 16th Dec 2011.
Account 1 was passed to bailiffs on 25th Nov, and 2 on 20th Jan 2012.

The amounts o/s as far as council are concerned are still the same plus fees. We have made payments totalling £289 to the bailiffs.

Breakdown of accounts are as follows;

Account 1

1st visit £22.50 + £25.00 Levy fee - 15th December 2011 - he cannot charge both these fees at the same time, the levy fee providing the levy is valid will take precedence and the Visit Fee must be removed.
£80 attendance fee with a view to remove - 24th January 2012 - did you have a payment agreement in place, did you stick to it?

Payments totalling £90 made on this account

Account 2

1st visit £22.50 + £44.00 Levy fee + £220.00 attendance fee - 7th Feb 2012 - as stated above he cannot charge all these fees at once, in my view he may charge a Levy Fee but both Visit Fee & Attendance Fee should be removed.

Payments totalling £199.00 made on this account.

I personally can only recall two visits from the bailiffs, although it is possible the supposed 3rd has slipped my memory. The dates the council have said we've made payment do seem to coincide with the bailiff visits, but in all honesty its the 24th Jan visit I have no memory of at all!

I'll print off the bailiff letter tonight and send that off, but do these fees look right do you think?

Bit worried that bailiffs can just climb over our side gate. What would happen if the kids were playing out the back when they did that?

[ploddertom]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

Can you list what goods the Bailiff has levied on EXACTLY as described on the the 2 Notice of Seizures?

[BellaJB]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

Hi

the above breakdown I got from speaking to the council this afternoon. I asked for a full breakdown of when and what charges were made by them or the bailiffs - they transferred me directly to the team who deals with the bailiffs. I will also send that 'acme' letter above to the bailiffs tomorrow to get their breakdown.

The bailiff levied on my car only. They posted through a Distress Notice: Seizure of Goods & Inventory, listing my car - the make, model and reg no.

I have gone through all the paperwork I had from the bailiffs visits, and there were indeed 3 visits including the one yesterday, but the dates differ from those the council have told me. The first visit was 13th December 2011 for account 1, detailing amount o/s including £22.50 visit fee + £25.00 Levy fee. The 2nd visit was 30th Jan for account 2, again detailing the amount o/s, £44 Levy fee + £220 enforcement fee. The third visit was yesterday and no details of fees on what they posted through. The council say the bailiff visits were 15th dec, 24th Jan and 7th Feb.

I made notes on the form from the first visit, saying I'd spoken with the bailiffs and given them card dets to take £30 payment on the 19th dec, that a further £50 was due by 30th dec, then the balance of account 1 to be split over 2mths (jan and feb). I admit i did fail to pay the £50 by end of dec, but paid £60 on 25th Jan and £119 on 7th Feb. It seems from the council notes that the latter payment was allocated to account 2 instead of paying off account 1 which the agreement was made on. Does that matter though given that I didnt pay exactly when I was supposed to?

[pepsie]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

Hi

the above breakdown I got from speaking to the council this afternoon. I asked for a full breakdown of when and what charges were made by them or the bailiffs - they transferred me directly to the team who deals with the bailiffs. I will also send that 'acme' letter above to the bailiffs tomorrow to get their breakdown.

The bailiff levied on my car only. They posted through a Distress Notice: Seizure of Goods & Inventory, listing my car - the make, model and reg no.

I have gone through all the paperwork I had from the bailiffs visits, and there were indeed 3 visits including the one yesterday, but the dates differ from those the council have told me. The first visit was 13th December 2011 for account 1, detailing amount o/s including £22.50 visit fee + £25.00 Levy fee. The 2nd visit was 30th Jan for account 2, again detailing the amount o/s, £44 Levy fee + £220 enforcement fee. The third visit was yesterday and no details of fees on what they posted through. The council say the bailiff visits were 15th dec, 24th Jan and 7th Feb.

I made notes on the form from the first visit, saying I'd spoken with the bailiffs and given them card dets to take £30 payment on the 19th dec, that a further £50 was due by 30th dec, then the balance of account 1 to be split over 2mths (jan and feb). I admit i did fail to pay the £50 by end of dec, but paid £60 on 25th Jan and £119 on 7th Feb. It seems from the council notes that the latter payment was allocated to account 2 instead of paying off account 1 which the agreement was made on. Does that matter though given that I didnt pay exactly when I was supposed to?

They will argue the payment dates but in truth they are not all that important at the moment.....I see this numpty bailiff has levied twice on the same car .....that is not allowed..get that breakdown and we will go from there.

Pepsie

[ploddertom]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

The statement you have from the Council is very important as it will enable you to cross reference with what you get from the Bailiff, not the first time they come up with differences.

[bluebottle]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

Which bailiff company is involved, please? I feel a complaint to OFT Credit Fitness team coming on. If your children have chickenpox, please be aware that the virus that causes this also causes shingles in adults, which can be very serious. The bailiffs need to be made aware of this and told to keep well away. If they ignore or refuse to listen, contact your local Public Health Officer who will tell them in no uncertain terms what they will do if they do not listen. To the best of my knowledge and belief, chickenpox is spread very easily. Shingles in the eyes can be very serious, hence the reason why the bailiffs should stay away.

[BellaJB]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

The bailiffs are Andrew James Enforcement Ltd in Swansea. By all accounts, they are like pitbulls. The guy who turned up yesterday was built like the proverbial, not intimidating in the least :tinysmile_cry_t:

And yes both my kids now have chicken pox, and i'm query with it too. But am sure if I ring bailiffs to tell them, they'll just think i'm bulls****ing no doubt. Not the nicest people I've ever dealt with.

Thanks all for your replies, I really do appreciate it and feel a lot calmer about the situation. I'll come back with the bailiffs reply when i get it. xxx

[pepsie]

Re: Please Help, Urgent urgent advice needed

Awwww why not invite them round to play with the kids? lol

Pepsie