How to get an independent internal inquiry done at court

[mohmmad786]

Hello again everyone, i was wondering if you guys with more knowledge can help me. Now many of you might remember my old thread and if you dont than here is a link.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ady-paid/page4

Now in post 81 of that thread

First of all i would like to thank everyone for helping me with this specially bluebottle and labman for recommending me towards law centre. One more thing is that i looked at the receipt and i paid the fine on the 10th of February rather than 14th(my son's birthday).

Form instructions : Directgov - Community Legal Advice - call back service

I went on the website at around 11am and requested for a call back at 2pm and they were on time to call me, first a lady took my details and than passed me to adviser and she said that as the fine was paid in full, the bailiff cannot levy on anything as he is only got his fees to recover and she said the bailiff should have never visited me asking for his extra £215 as he visited me to collect his fee so that £215 is invalid. She said that we might have to pay £85 to marston for sending the letter but when i mentioned that i have got a disable son and i receive carers allowance, she said that i fall in the vulnerable category. The lady from law centre also tried calling the court to take the fine back but there computers were down so they could not help and than she called marston on my behalf and explained that the case should be handed back to court as i fall in vulnerable category.
Now this is what i could not understand as i was listening to this conversation between the law centre and marston. Now i paid the rest of my fine on the 10th of february and the lady at marston said that my case went back to court on the 13th and was returned back to marston within two hours.
All i can understand is that the court received the fine in full but what was the reason that they sent it back to marston? is there some funny business going on or is it just me?

I was wondering if there is any way of getting an independent inquiry done about this, i am not accusing the court or anyone but something just doesnt add up. I am wanting to take this further to find out what is happening. My question is that why is court or people dealing with court fines are not willing to help? in recent times i have seen alot of cases where people have tried to contact them and get a very rude person on the other side who will ask them to deal with the bailiffs. In my case i paid my fine on the 10th of february, my fine went back to court on the 13th and with two hours they send it back to marston. Now i want to know the reason why my fine was sent back to court and why and who sent it back to marston?

I am sorry to bring this up again but looking at the things on tv where these top brass are involved in so many things and just today i saw on channel 4 where they said that in dispatches a private detective can find out your national insurance number for £350. Again i am not accusing anyone of anything but these companies make millions and i have got a funny feeling about what is happening behind close curtains.

[labman]

Re: How to get an independent internal inquiry done at court

I would try writing pretty much what you have above to the Fines Officer at the court in question and see what their response is. Failing that, try pming Ploddertom or Pepsie to see if one of them is able to advise.

[ploddertom]

Re: How to get an independent internal inquiry done at court

I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone but my interpretation of proceedings is as follows:

1 - you are taken to Court for whatever reason and are fined a sum of money
2 - the fine may be due to be paid immediately or you may be given time to pay in instalments
3 - for whatever reason the fine goes unpaid and/or instalments are missed
4 - you are written to by the Court asking you to bring your account up to date or else x, y or z may happen - the Further Steps Notice
5 - for whatever reason this is not complied with
6 - as you have failed to address the issue a Warrant is issued to the Bailiff
7 - because of the charges the Bailiff is applying you contact the Court complaining your fine has now doubled/tripled or worse
8 - the attitude from the Court suggests "tough luck", but looking at it from their point of view you have had ample opportunities and ignored them all

There are of course a variety of reasons why you have not complied
1 - you know nothing of the fine as it was done in your absence
2 - you have moved
3 - you never received the Further Steps Notice - apparently it is a known fact HMCTS released a load of files knowing this procedure had been missed out
4 - etc etc

In my view the Bailiff should also be acting as some form of "social worker" whereby he can identify the very vulnerable of society. However this is not the case as both himself & his employer are driven by money and will ignore everything else. There is no allowance for paying a few days late or when payment crosses with letters from the Bailiff, think of a similar analogy a Credit Card does impose a penalty for late payment but that is affordable, the situation with the Bailiff is just one of inflexibility backed up HMCTS refusing to get involved. It needs a completely fresh think to move this forward and that can only happen if enforcement as we have now is scrapped and replaced by something fit for purpose in the 21st century.

[labman]

Re: How to get an independent internal inquiry done at court

I know exactly what you're saying PT, but surely they can't charge for visiting to collect their fee?

I'd still be inclined to write to the Fines Manager putting what you have above and see what response you get.

[mohmmad786]

Re: How to get an independent internal inquiry done at court

I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone but my interpretation of proceedings is as follows:

1 - you are taken to Court for whatever reason and are fined a sum of money
2 - the fine may be due to be paid immediately or you may be given time to pay in instalments
3 - for whatever reason the fine goes unpaid and/or instalments are missed
4 - you are written to by the Court asking you to bring your account up to date or else x, y or z may happen - the Further Steps Notice
5 - for whatever reason this is not complied with
6 - as you have failed to address the issue a Warrant is issued to the Bailiff
7 - because of the charges the Bailiff is applying you contact the Court complaining your fine has now doubled/tripled or worse
8 - the attitude from the Court suggests "tough luck", but looking at it from their point of view you have had ample opportunities and ignored them all

There are of course a variety of reasons why you have not complied
1 - you know nothing of the fine as it was done in your absence
2 - you have moved
3 - you never received the Further Steps Notice - apparently it is a known fact HMCTS released a load of files knowing this procedure had been missed out
4 - etc etc

In my view the Bailiff should also be acting as some form of "social worker" whereby he can identify the very vulnerable of society. However this is not the case as both himself & his employer are driven by money and will ignore everything else. There is no allowance for paying a few days late or when payment crosses with letters from the Bailiff, think of a similar analogy a Credit Card does impose a penalty for late payment but that is affordable, the situation with the Bailiff is just one of inflexibility backed up HMCTS refusing to get involved. It needs a completely fresh think to move this forward and that can only happen if enforcement as we have now is scrapped and replaced by something fit for purpose in the 21st century.

I can totally understand what you are saying there, but the problem i had in my case was a bit different, i called the fine office to make alternate arrangement but they dont send any confirmation letter so its there words against you. I stick to my payments but according to them, they have got record of me calling them but no record of making alternative arrangements, make sense? than the final payment got late(yes i admit) but still before the bailiff letter was received. As far as i know(and please correct me if i am wrong) but bailiff cannot levy anything just for his own fees and as the fine is paid in full the most he can charge is there administration charges(even though i will dispute that as well) but the fact remains that WHO were those people who moved my case from one place to another? i mean why did they pass it on the marston AGAIN 3 days after the fine was paid.
Labman i feel that someone in the fine office or fine manger might be involved in all this hence wanting to try some other options or do you think the fine manager would look into it rather than saying that it was all above board.

[ploddertom]

Re: How to get an independent internal inquiry done at court

In my view regardless of whether you paid late or not is not the point. The fact you paid before you received anything from them says to me "tough" on the Bailiff - he should have got his act together quicker. The problem with it seems to stem back at the Court as they plainly never passed any notification on. If they are going to say you have to deal with the Bailiff then why allow to pay anyway, if paying via their online system what is to stop them when you log on saying "Sorry account now passed to Bailiff - deal with them" or similar. As usual with a lot of Gov Depts it is only half thought out.

[mohmmad786]

Re: How to get an independent internal inquiry done at court

In my view regardless of whether you paid late or not is not the point. The fact you paid before you received anything from them says to me "tough" on the Bailiff - he should have got his act together quicker. The problem with it seems to stem back at the Court as they plainly never passed any notification on. If they are going to say you have to deal with the Bailiff then why allow to pay anyway, if paying via their online system what is to stop them when you log on saying "Sorry account now passed to Bailiff - deal with them" or similar. As usual with a lot of Gov Depts it is only half thought out.

Couldnt have said it any better But i am still trying to find out a way of finding who these people were who passed my debt 3 days after i paid the fine and what were there reasons? we all know that marston and these bailiff companies make millions so was there any money involved for someone to pass that fine back to marston.